orm-input-text\" name=\"ngl_email\" id=\"ngl_email\" /></div></div><button type=\"submit\" class=\"ngl-form-button\">Subscribe</button><p class=\"ngl-form-text\">We hate spam, too, and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone <br />except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</p></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay\"><div class=\"ngl-message-svg-wrap\"></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay-text\">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_list_id\" id=\"ngl_list_id\" value=\"26f81bd8ae\" /><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_double_optin\" id=\"ngl_double_optin\" value=\"yes\" /></form>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 08 Mar 2025 00:45:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:13;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:61:\"Do The Woo Community: Do the Woo Friday Shares, March 7, 2025\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=92516\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:63:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/do-the-woo-friday-shares-march-7-2025/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:194:\"WordPress continues to lead in enterprise solutions, showcasing new tools, addressing gender inequality in leadership, and enhancing WooCommerce functionalities while promoting community events.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 07 Mar 2025 09:59:01 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:14;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:85:\"Do The Woo Community: Designing Products Users Love, A Deep Dive with Shahjahan Jewel\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=91323\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:83:\"https://dothewoo.io/designing-products-users-love-a-deep-dive-with-shahjahan-jewel/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:198:\"In this episode, James, Katie, and guest Jewel discuss user experience in product design, the importance of customer feedback, team dynamics, and the growth of WP Manage Ninja\'s innovative products.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 06 Mar 2025 15:17:04 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:15;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:76:\"Do The Woo Community: Making the Right Decisions for Your WordPress Business\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=92253\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/making-the-right-decisions-for-your-wordpress-business/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:219:\"Building a business in the WordPress and WooCommerce ecosystem requires careful decision-making. Here are some insights on pricing strategies, plugin vs. SaaS choices, and the benefits of strong partnerships for growth.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 06 Mar 2025 10:48:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:16;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:85:\"WPTavern: #159 – James Kemp on WooCommerce Innovations and Trends in Selling Online\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=188026\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:99:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/159-james-kemp-on-woocommerce-innovations-and-trends-in-selling-online\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:47634:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case WooCommerce innovations, and trends selling online.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea featured, on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today we have James Kemp. James is the Core Product Lead for WooCommerce. After working with WooCommerce, running a plugin shop for 10 years, he joined the team at the end of 2023 to help shape the future of e-commerce.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>James talks about his journey with WordPress and WooCommerce, and explains his role at Automattic, where he&#8217;s tasked with connecting the community&#8217;s feedback to the developments in WooCommerce, ensuring that the Woo platform continually evolves and improves.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He discusses the innovations within WooCommerce, the challenges of balancing the needs of small and large scale stores, and how the team navigates an environment filled with both competitors and opportunities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He gets into the positive impact of WooCommerce&#8217;s recent rebranding, and how the system positions itself amidst the ever-growing competition from SaaS platforms like Shopify.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>James shares his insights into the trends shaping e-commerce, like the seamless integration of newer technologies and consumer buying habits.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re keen to understand the breadth of WooCommerce&#8217;s impact on e-commerce, or are curious about the direction of online shopping, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you James Kemp.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast by James Kemp. Hello James.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:50] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Hello, how are you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:51] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, good. Nice to speak to you. James is on the podcast today to talk all things WooCommerce. And he really is a very, very credible person to talk about WooCommerce, because James is the Core Product Lead for WooCommerce over at Automattic.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, when I say that title, James, I don&#8217;t really know what it means. Will you just enlighten us? And also, if you feel like throwing some other biographical information at us about your history with WordPress and things like that, feel free.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:17] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Of course. Yeah, I mean, we&#8217;ve spoken a couple of times on a podcast like this. I don&#8217;t know if we&#8217;ve done the Tavern one before.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But yeah, as a quick introduction, I started using WordPress in 2009, and I started building with WooCommerce in 2011. And from that time I worked with customers and specifically like building websites for customers who needed websites.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And in that time I built up a collection of plugins, which I sold on a premium basis, which eventually turned into IconicWP, which was a WooCommerce plugin shop with 14 or 15 premium plugins. Sold that, well, that was acquired in 2021 by Liquid Web, Stellar. And I stayed there for a couple of years, carried on working. My whole team came over with the acquisition. We carried on just working as we were really, but under this kind of bigger brand of products and WordPress software, which was quite nice. It was nice to kind of get that experience from companies selling products like we were, but they were at a much bigger scale than we were at the time. That was a nice experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then, yeah, towards the end of that, I reached out to Paul, who was the CEO, at the time, of WooCommerce, and just kind of said, I feel like I could have a good impact on WooCommerce itself, is there anything there for me? And I was kind of open to whatever that might look like. There was no job description that I applied for. I just kind of reached out and said, this is what I want to do, this is what, I like doing, this is what I&#8217;m good at. And then, yeah, here we are just over a year since I joined.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I joined as a product manager. And like you say, now I&#8217;m a Core Product Manager, which is a new role within WooCommerce. So a Product Manager would be, and for context, there&#8217;s eight or nine Product Managers within WooCommerce. When I joined, we each kind of had an area of focus. So my area was order management. So any project or improvement or just, my day to day would be looking at order management and, how can we make this better? It kind of shifted outside of that a bit as well into other areas. But each Product Manager has that kind of role where they&#8217;re focused on one kind of key area of WooCommerce.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But there was never really any product manager that had an overall vision of the whole product. And that&#8217;s what the Core Product Manager role is. So I&#8217;m less focused on one specific area, and more focused on just, how can we make the whole thing better? And part of that role is kind of connecting the dots a bit. One team&#8217;s working on this, another team&#8217;s working on that, how do they overlap? But also connecting the community dots to the stuff that we actually put out there. So, what are people asking for? What are the common kind of requests that people have, or the complaints that people have? Or even the positives that people have and, how can we make those things better?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So is there just one of you? So there&#8217;s one Core Product Lead. There&#8217;s not multiple of those.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:18] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Correct.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Oh gosh, that&#8217;s really interesting. So you&#8217;ve got like the 10,000 mile high view of the entire project. And so you are kind of open to suggestions, innovations, improvements, tweaks, that all comes under the purview of your job.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:32] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Correct, yeah. There&#8217;s different areas. There&#8217;s what we call product, which is kind of the user facing experience. And by user I mean merchant, and probably customer as well, so the visual aspects of the product that people interact with. And then there&#8217;s the platform side of things, which are backend architecture and performance and all those kinds of things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I&#8217;m primarily focused on the front end aspect, not front end but, you know, the core experience we call it. I am actually focused a lot on the platform side of things at the moment as well, because the person who usually does that is on sabbatical, so I&#8217;m kind of helping out a bit there. And it&#8217;s quite nice to have, you know, that understanding as well, for approaching core experience type things. And it also encompasses the WooCommerce app and many of our premium extensions, many of our marketplace extensions, premium or free.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;m guessing that if you ask anybody the question, is their inbox pretty full? You know, the to-do list that you have is pretty full, everybody would probably say, yeah, I&#8217;ve got plenty on my plate. But it sounds as if you may well have a lot on your plate.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, I don&#8217;t know if there&#8217;s a lot that you&#8217;ve got to deal with in there, and you&#8217;ve got a lot of ideas, and innovations that you&#8217;d like to push forward. But is it fair to say that there&#8217;s a ton of innovation still to be done inside of WooCommerce?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:46] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Yeah, for sure. It&#8217;s something that I&#8217;m still trying to figure out. Like, how do you stay on top of all of these things and, where is my input within this most valuable? Because I&#8217;m still working alongside all the other product managers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And actually that&#8217;s been really nice to kind of connect with a product manager that&#8217;s working on something specific, and work with them to make that the best it can be for WooCommerce.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But yeah, I&#8217;m still trying to figure out how to like organise all of these things so they&#8217;re not just in my head, but they&#8217;re out there in a manageable way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> How do you get intelligence about what needs to be done? I mean, obviously there&#8217;s the team within Automattic that you deal directly with, I would&#8217;ve thought of, but do you keep your door of your office kind of half open a little bit? Are you prepared to listen to community suggestions?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And again, I&#8217;m not trying to get you to give out your email address or anything, but is there that element still? Do you still listen to people out in the community, users, and what have you? Do they come directly to you, or is there some kind of filtration process which people have to go through in order to get ideas in your head?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:46] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> There&#8217;s many ways. Yeah, I think one of the things that I love most is talking to the people that actually use it. And I do that primarily on X or Twitter. I talk to a lot of people over there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The downside to that is the majority of them are agencies and developers. It&#8217;s not a downside, the downside being that I don&#8217;t get that kind of open communication necessarily with merchants directly. So if I want to talk to a merchant that&#8217;s more of a filtered, as you say, it&#8217;s an intentional, you know, I have to reach out to a merchant and schedule a call and all that kind of stuff. There is the occasional merchant on X, but it&#8217;s not their stomping ground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So yeah, I&#8217;m also in the Slack, the WooCommerce community Slack. Some of what I&#8217;ve implemented is these kind of external channels within our own Slack. So one example of that is a project we&#8217;re working on for fulfillment statuses, where I got Becca from Kestrel WP and Patrick Garman from Minesize into one of our internal Slack rooms to discuss and kind of help shape this project. So they&#8217;re directly involved in that way in stuff that we&#8217;re working on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think something that we really want to do is be really transparent with like, this is what we&#8217;re working on. You may well have seen over the course of the last year or so that that has been the case, via GitHub discussions, via the Developer Blog, via Slack, the community Slack. But yeah, I love getting feedback from people on Twitter. I still don&#8217;t know what to call it, Twitter or X.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I often wonder if the sort of inside baseball of WordPress is a little bit hard to penetrate, because I&#8217;m imagining there&#8217;s a lot of people who use WordPress that in a million years have never opened up the WordPress Slack, GitHub is not a thing for them. And I&#8217;ve always wondered how people such as yourself, you know, in senior positions get that information. How does it get to you? And X, Bluesky, whatever the alternative is, that&#8217;s a really interesting way of kind of completely circumventing that process. I will make sure that your profile, your X profile is linked in here and then people can reach out on that basis. Yeah, that&#8217;s great. Thank you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s just paint the picture of Woo, and how big it is because we keep hearing the statistic. The one that everybody talks about is this 43%, which is the WordPress statistic. And I never quite know how to manage that in my head, what that exactly means. But a fairly sizable number is also the e-commerce side, the WooCommerce side of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Where are we at in terms of the web, and in terms of WordPress, how much of WordPress is WooCommerce, and how much of the internet is Woo? And every time I hear this number, it changes a little bit. But every time I hear it, it&#8217;s still breathtakingly large.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:24] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s an interesting one actually. In terms of how much of WordPress is Woo, I&#8217;m not sure on that. I think we could probably calculate that based on the figures I do have, which is how much of e-commerce is WooCommerce, and that is 37%.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:41] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> 37%. Okay, so whatever the percentage is, be it the top million websites or the top 10,000 websites, whatever that metric is, let&#8217;s assume that that&#8217;s solid and safe. 37% is done on a WooCommerce platform. That is breathtaking.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:56] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Which is a huge amount, for the listeners, and for you if you want to check it out later. If you go to woocommerce.com/newsroom, we update these numbers every month. We have some numbers there, like there&#8217;s 3.6 million live installations. 37% of e-commerce sites are powered by WooCommerce. There&#8217;s 1,000 plus official marketplace extensions. That&#8217;s actually going to grow, I think substantially this year.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then, yeah, some other stats that are listed there, which I think are useful to keep an eye on. And there&#8217;s, I believe the team that updates those numbers kind of, they take the data primarily from Store Leads, which is a data gathering outfit. And I think they kind of dial them back a bit, rather than, you know, inflating them, I think they actually go the other way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:41] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> In terms of the trend of that, so the 37%, I&#8217;m not looking at that chart at the moment, but is your impression that, has it stagnated, has it gone up broadly in the last, let&#8217;s say five years, something like that? Is WooCommerce basically growing, stagnating, declining?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:54] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Over the five year, I would expect it&#8217;s gone up. There&#8217;s no graph to look at. There probably is somewhere, but I don&#8217;t have it in front of me now. But I do know that this was updated this week, I believe. And it was updated from 35% to 37. So there&#8217;s definite growth there. And I would expect, just the nature of e-commerce in general, that that number&#8217;s grown over the course.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:16] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> When you say that, what&#8217;s the thing in your head which is promoting you to say the nature of e-commerce? Because I really don&#8217;t follow e-commerce, but I have this impression that during the lockdown period, 2019 and on, it felt like everybody, for very credible reasons, had to move whatever they were selling to an online format. So I imagine there was a bump there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But also it feels like the world is now inundated with pocket size technology, which means that I can buy anything 24/7, no matter where I am. And so it feels like high streets in the UK, the shutters are going up. Bricks and mortar shops seem to be closing. Certainly where I live, that is a broad trend. It&#8217;s not particularly rapid, but it&#8217;s definitely a trend.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I&#8217;m imagining that the confluence of mobile technology, ubiquity of internet connection, computers available all over the place, certainly in the country where you and I both live. It feels like this inexorable rise, this trend towards purchasing things at 4 o&#8217;clock in the afternoon, sitting on a sofa, a bus, wherever you might be. It does feel like that&#8217;s the way the world is moving. Are those kind of the intuitions that you have when you say WooCommerce is rising for obvious reasons?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:23] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Yeah, exactly. I think just the nature of the internet and the online world has kind of exponentially grown since its inception, right? And I would expect that e-commerce will grow with it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think one of the greatest things about the internet is that you can buy online. I should look into the history actually, but I can&#8217;t imagine what the thought process was back when the internet was invented. Did they imagine that e-commerce would be a thing? That people would buy stuff, even from the other side of the world, and have it shipped out to them in a matter of days or weeks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I just think as technology evolves, and we&#8217;ve seen the boom in AI, and just the boom in like generational development on computers, and coding and all of that is advancing, and I think e-commerce will follow suit as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, it feels like there&#8217;s no place but an upward trend for e-commerce. Now, whether or not WooCommerce fits into that landscape perfectly in the next decade, we&#8217;ll see. But it feels like I, and I can really only rely on myself, I feel like I&#8217;m going to buy more things online in the decade to come than I am this year. It feels like each and every year, my desire to get on my bike and go into the town centre dwindles, and I&#8217;m far more likely to buy things online.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And now the merchants have pivoted their offerings so that, you know, if you don&#8217;t like it, you can freely return it and things like that. So even the impediments that were there have suddenly changed, and it&#8217;s just remarkable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And also the mere fact, just capture in your head for a moment, the fact that you can get all of this for no money down. The WooCommerce platform, and I know, in order to get the best out of it, you will definitely want marketplace things, third party, but other places as well. But the thing is free. It&#8217;s completely free. And I find that utterly remarkable. I just think that&#8217;s breathtaking in all honesty, that that&#8217;s available.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:15] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Yeah, I think it&#8217;s one of the key selling points about WooCommerce is that you can get started for free, as close to free as possible, when you account for hosting and transactional fees that naturally come with any platform.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But on top of that, with WooCommerce specifically, and with the age of AI now, you could make WooCommerce do what you want it to do for free. And every site could be tailored to specific needs, and like a specific execution of functionality without too much technical knowledge, which I think is really interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And you&#8217;ve seen people are building apps, and I&#8217;ve built a few as well, specifically for needs that they want to solve. I saw one yesterday, I think it was Maddie on, Twitter, I can link to it. She built an app to automatically put an emoji over faces in photos. I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve seen, when parents share photos of other people&#8217;s children and that kind of thing, they typically put an emoji over the face. She said she was getting annoyed at having to do that with every photo. But we&#8217;re in that era now where you can kind of roll these things with no technical knowledge, whether the output is good, I think is questionable, but it&#8217;s pretty good.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Does the advent of AI, and what you&#8217;re suggesting, you can add your third party stuff, if you like, for want of a better word, to WooCommerce with the assistance of AI. Does that undermine the longevity of the free, open source WooCommerce project? Because I imagine that there&#8217;s a lot of underpinnings there, you know, the marketplace that WooCommerce, as I imagine those plugins that are sold to add different functionality and what have you, that must in some way pay for the freeness of it all.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Does AI, does that concern you? You know, that if we erode the need to purchase third party software in order to get out what you desire, yeah, does that erode the possibility of WooCommerce being free in the future?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:05] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> I don&#8217;t think so. I think it assists. I think it depends what you&#8217;re making. Like, I wouldn&#8217;t want to build out a full subscriptions platform just using an AI prompt. And maybe that will become more advanced in the future. I think as someone running a business, you don&#8217;t want to be dealing with this code yourself, maintaining it, making sure it stays up to date. And I think that&#8217;s the case for, or that has been the case since e-commerce software existed. There used to be a trend of rolling your own e-commerce solutions, and I think that&#8217;s less likely to happen these days.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s a good point. If you think about just a regular WordPress website, if it&#8217;s just a brochure site with no e-commerce attached, go with the AI, you know, it seems like there&#8217;s loads of scope there. But obviously if you&#8217;ve got the compliance, and the financial obligation, and all of the law that underpins an e-commerce shop, I imagine there are impediments in people&#8217;s heads which will say, wait, did an AI make that? Are we really going to trust that? So maybe it inoculates itself given the nature of the websites which are in question.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay, just moving on, tell us a little bit about the kind of people that are using WooCommerce. Now, I know this is a very, very broad question, but in my head, for some reason I have it, that a significant amount of people that are using WooCommerce will be small stores. But I&#8217;m guessing also maybe WooCommerce really does dig deep into the enterprise as well. Does it run the gamut of everything? Or is there a kind of focus for you, and teams within Automattic because there&#8217;s a certain type of clientele which largely consume WooCommerce?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:37] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Yeah, it does kind of span everything. So people just starting out either want low cost, in which case WooCommerce is an obvious choice. You can start setting things up, especially for brand new e-commerce, whereas they&#8217;re just selling single products. There&#8217;s nothing too technical there that would require an expense of some kind. So it&#8217;s super easy to spin up a WooCommerce site and test it out pretty much free.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So yeah, we have that audience. It&#8217;s not necessarily our focus, our focus is primarily the higher revenue, higher traffic e-commerce stores, because that&#8217;s the aspiration for anyone selling, right? They want to become successful, they want that to be their business, is e-commerce. And those are the users that we&#8217;re focused on. And then naturally anything we do for them is going to trickle down to benefit the people who are just starting out with the platform.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it does span a wide range of users, but we do focus in on the higher revenue and high product volume, high traffic, those kind of things. Or at least that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re focusing on this year. That target evolves over time. But that&#8217;s been our focus for most of my time since I&#8217;ve been here. So it&#8217;s nice to have that vision of who&#8217;s using it and what we can do to make the platform as good as possible for them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:52] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> We have this expression in the UK, Jack of all trades, master of none. I don&#8217;t know how that works outside of the boundaries of the UK, but it basically means if you try to be everything to everybody, you sort of succeed at nothing. It&#8217;s something akin to that basically.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I&#8217;m wondering if there are bits of WooCommerce which you have to manage those sort of trade offs. Like, okay, if we build this thing, which feels like it&#8217;s a real enterprisey thing, how is that going to work with our more modest users, let&#8217;s say?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Or if we really focus on the more modest users, how are the enterprise going to feel like that? And it not being a niche, and it being the full spectrum of sites out there, yeah, at times that must be actually quite frustrating, I would&#8217;ve thought.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:29] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> It&#8217;s a challenge, yeah. It&#8217;s something that we&#8217;re working on at the moment, is making the base of WooCommerce have the majority of features for the majority of users, the features that you&#8217;d expect in an e-commerce platform, which I&#8217;ve touched on in other podcasts if you want to go and find them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it&#8217;s a process called More in Core, which is the kind of code name for it. Where we&#8217;re just trying to build out the base product to have the majority of things that merchants and builders need, without needing to go and find all these plugins and custom development and things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the challenge is which features. The features that people need are going to change depending on what type of store they&#8217;re running. So I&#8217;ve seen a lot of people want subscriptions in Core. And then I&#8217;ve also seen the complete opposite where people don&#8217;t want subscriptions in Core because they see it as bloat. There&#8217;s a challenge there for sure, to figure out what that kind of sweet spot is without being bloated, but also without nickel and dimming, and making the average number of plugins required too high or too low.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;ve often thought that if I worked at Microsoft on Windows, the software, the OS, it would be my constant annoyance that I had to think about every possible permutation of hardware that could ever be used. Whereas if I worked for Apple and was working on the Mac OS project, it&#8217;d be like, there&#8217;s just this one set of hardware, it&#8217;s just so much more straightforward, we build it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I imagine that commercial rivals, things like Shopify, and we can get into that in a moment, probably have it easier in that sense because there isn&#8217;t this, well, I know that they have an ecosystem of sort of third party apps, I believe they&#8217;re called. But there isn&#8217;t this whole backwards compatibility thing that 5,000 different plugins that bind into WooCommerce and what have you. And so I guess you&#8217;ve always got to be taking real careful steps when you develop a new feature or tweak anything, which maybe the other platforms don&#8217;t have to think about in quite the same way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:16] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Yeah, I actually posted about that exact thing on X or Twitter earlier. I&#8217;m just going to call it X. I want to call it Twitter, but I&#8217;m going to call it X. It&#8217;s a challenge because, and this touches on the 37% number, like any update we roll out is affecting over a third of all e-commerce stores online, which is a crazy number.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It has to be backwards compatible, it has to be rolled out in a way that isn&#8217;t going to break things. There&#8217;s a lot more consideration that needs to happen because of the multitude of environments that could exist. There could be bad hosting, there could be good hosting. There could be low performance, high performance, number of products, different plugins, different themes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For a platform like ours, that is one of the greatest challenges, but also one of the greatest strengths as well, because of how flexible it is. In a platform like Shopify, like you say, they have an app marketplace, but it&#8217;s a lot more restricted. There&#8217;s only really a handful of ways to do something. Whereas with WooCommerce, you&#8217;ve kind of got full control because you are hosting it yourself. You can pretty much do anything. Which, like I say, is a challenge, but also a strength.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It requires navigation, and I touched on this in a, I do a monthly, Inside wooCommerce podcast. The last one that went out was with Julia, who is the lead for our release process. And it&#8217;s worth a listen, because it&#8217;s quite interesting to hear, now, how we roll out releases and how we&#8217;re able to test and watch for signals for issues that might arise. And be able to roll it back, fix that, and then roll out the updates. There&#8217;s quite a nice process there now, which we&#8217;ll obviously refine as time goes on, but yeah, it&#8217;s a challenge.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> More recently, and we don&#8217;t need to get into the story behind it, but there is a story behind it. But the Automatticians, so the people that work for Automattic, have in some cases been repurposed. So their work that they&#8217;ve been doing for many years in one direction has now been pivoted. And I think it&#8217;s probably fair to say that focusing on things which generate revenue is a crucial part of the decision behind that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m wondering if that&#8217;s had an impact. So this whole thing is not really that old, it&#8217;s maybe only five, six weeks old, something like that, so maybe it hasn&#8217;t yet. But I&#8217;m wondering if it&#8217;s had actually a positive impact on the teams that you work with, or maybe there&#8217;s steady away, no change.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:38] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> I would say there&#8217;s no change actually. I mean, WooCommerce has always been, we&#8217;re building a free product, but we are also a business, and we&#8217;ve always been a business. We wouldn&#8217;t be able to afford to put out a product and not have any money coming in to continue developing it. There&#8217;s always been a business aspect to WooCommerce.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But yeah, the teams that have kind of moved off of the open source contributions that they were making previously, I haven&#8217;t seen any of them come over to WooCommerce. And maybe they have, if they come in as engineers, then I probably wouldn&#8217;t see that anyway. But yeah, in my day to day, I haven&#8217;t seen an impact. But, you know, Automattic has multiple products and experiments and things that exist outside of WooCommerce, and I honestly don&#8217;t dig into them too much. I&#8217;m very focused on the WooCommerce side of things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You&#8217;ve recently, I say you, WooCommerce recently had an entire upending of the branding. If you don&#8217;t follow it very closely, it may be that you haven&#8217;t seen this story, but maybe it was not that long ago in the last week or so. It feels like the message dropped that a lot of the branding has been redone, and I often look at rebranding and I think why all that effort?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What was really the point of that? What was the need to upend everything, and make people have to see something new? And I&#8217;m just wondering if you know what the point of that was? I mean, it&#8217;s nice. It looks lovely. Don&#8217;t get me wrong. I thoroughly love it. But I&#8217;m curious as to what the reasoning was. Did it feel stale previously? What was going on there? Do you know?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:06] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> All of the above, yeah. So I&#8217;ve known about the branding, in its current form of, what it&#8217;s gonna be like since maybe October last year. And it&#8217;s been really interesting to watch. If you compare what we had previously against this, it&#8217;s clear like why it had to happen. The branding that we had previously was the same branding that WooCommerce had when it was initially formed via WooThemes. If you compare it, it just looks out of date. The colors are flat and, not very inspiring. And the new branding now allows us to be a bit more modern, I think. It&#8217;s modernized the brand.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it also opens us up to be able to go out and do more effective marketing and acquisition that we haven&#8217;t done prior. Branding isn&#8217;t just changing the logo and updating some colors. There&#8217;s a whole array of assets that come with it, and like a story behind the assets and what we&#8217;re trying to put out there into the world. Which we didn&#8217;t have before, we just had a logo and some colors.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:04] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> There&#8217;s this sort of nod to a shopping cart in the W of Woo, which is actually quite clever, I think. And you&#8217;re right, it does just smack of more modern.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Being a complete non-designer, I can never summon up the vocabulary to express why I think something looks good. But saw the new branding, and I saw the video that was associated with that, and I did think, yeah, that&#8217;s great. That looks really great, but I can&#8217;t for the life of me tell you why it looks great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But interestingly though, was there a market push, not just because it was stale, and let&#8217;s move this conversation into the rise of the SaaS. Because over the last period, the Wixs, the Squarespaces, the Shopify and all of these other things, I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s many more. They&#8217;ve brought to the market a fairly affordable alternative. There&#8217;s nothing free, as far as I&#8217;m aware, but it&#8217;s a fairly low monthly cost. And I imagine over time these companies are eating up some of the new people, maybe even taking people from WooCommerce. I imagine it&#8217;s a bit of ebb and flow and what have you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But was it that, were they becoming more professional, more visible in the world? Super Bowl ads and all that kind of thing. Was there some of that in the rebranding as well?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:14] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Yeah, I imagine so. I think if you look at our branding previously, I don&#8217;t think it was necessarily thought out as a brand as such. I think it evolved over time. Whereas this was, the rebrand was much more focused, who are we trying to connect with here? What type of customer are we trying to pull in? And how can we reach them? What do they want to see? And I don&#8217;t think we had that before.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And yeah, definitely it helps us compete with these SaaS solutions that are quite easy to pitch. You know, influencer can pitch this stuff, because they have cool branding and, it&#8217;s hard to say really.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like I think you could say about any product, like if Apple had a really badly designed, like 3D Apple from the nineties as their logo. In this modern era of what you expect from a brand, and a brand that&#8217;s powering 37% of all e-commerce or, I don&#8217;t what Apple&#8217;s market share on mobile devices is, but I imagine it&#8217;s pretty high.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s just something that needs to be considered, and there needs to be a thought process behind why we look like we do, and who we want to attract with that. And we didn&#8217;t have that before with the previous speech bubble thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:25] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I remember listening to, I believe it was Bill Gates, this is many years ago, and Bill Gates was asked a question by an interviewer and it was, what keeps you awake at night, in terms of the longevity of Microsoft? And he said three things. Google, Google and Google. And basically he&#8217;s terrified of Google.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m gonna pitch the same sort of question to you. Of the SaaS things out there, are there any bits out there which make the Woo team think, oh gosh, that&#8217;s interesting. We need to copy that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Does the sort of gouging out of the pricing, their very affordable pricing, those kind of things. How do you cope with that? How do you compete with that, with something which is basically free? I don&#8217;t know if that keeps you awake at night.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:06] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Obviously like any business has its competitors. There&#8217;s nothing that&#8217;s come up that we&#8217;ve been like, oh, we&#8217;ve got to copy that and we&#8217;ve got to get that in. It&#8217;s more like comparatively are we offering an equal playing field to a potential customer?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And this ties back into the More in Core stuff that I was talking about. Is there stuff that not just Shopify, but other platforms have in their core offering, and this may be like low priced or free plans, or there&#8217;s other self-hosted versions as well that exist. They are comparatively free. Are we offering the same functionality? Do we have those essential features available? Yeah, we do, but do we charge for them? Probably, if there&#8217;s stuff that&#8217;s missing, there&#8217;s probably a premium extension for it. Or there&#8217;s a free extension for it, but it requires the merchant to go out and find it, rather than like us presenting it to them as a solution when they need it contextually.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, things like that are definitely considerations. We need to be innovating, and we need to be keeping up as well. That could be said about any platform versus another platform that there&#8217;s always, again, going back to Apple, Apple and Samsung have this kind of to and fro.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So yeah, it&#8217;s a consideration for sure. The target audience of someone going onto Shopify versus someone going onto WooCommerce is slightly different. The kind of core things that they are looking for are what we need to be offering.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, that&#8217;s interesting because if I was a WooCommerce user, which as I explained I&#8217;m not, that would be the sentence I needed to hear, I think. The people working in the offices and the places where you are working is, okay, we are keeping an eye on what the competition are doing. And if something is a moving, shaking feature, which is upsetting the industry and everybody wants it, then you&#8217;ve at least got your beedy on it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:55] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> That&#8217;s one part of it as well. What are the competitors doing, but also what are our marketplace sales saying? What are the trends saying in e-commerce, even TikTok, Amazon, like all those kind of things that aren&#8217;t directly related to what we do, that&#8217;s accounted for as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And also what are the customers saying? And we touched on it earlier, but we have a whole, what we call the feedback river, which is just a big database of feedback from everywhere. From within the plugin itself. From support. From reviews and from wordpress.org, and like all of these places combined into one database. So yeah, I think you have to keep an eye on all of it. And the challenge is figuring out is this essential? What percentage of users actually want this specific thing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And actually that&#8217;s always been a challenge, like even working on much smaller scale products at Iconic, it was always hard if a customer reaches out and says, oh, I wish it did this, it was hard to say no to that, because you are excited that someone&#8217;s using it, and they want to adapt it to their own use case. But you have to take into account, is the effort to implement this going to be valuable for everyone? Is this the priority for the majority, or is it just going satisfy this one person? You have to do that at scale now, or I have to do that at scale.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:14] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I know that time is short, so I&#8217;m just going to pivot just for one final question before we leave and it&#8217;s, it really has nothing to do with WooCommerce specifically, although it may? And that is, I&#8217;m just curious if you know of any interesting things which are happening around the periphery of e-commerce that you personally are finding interesting and engaging. Something that maybe our general audience won&#8217;t have come across, because they&#8217;re not deep in the weeds of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That could be inside WordPress. I dunno, the Interactivity API, or it could be something the browsers are thinking about doing, or third party vendors who&#8217;ve got some curious technology that we might not have heard of.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, really just any interesting thing that James has spotted lately that you think we might want to look at?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:54] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Yeah, I dunno whether I have anything that nobody&#8217;s ever heard of.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:57] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s fine.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:58] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> There&#8217;s a definite rise in platforms offering their own e-commerce. So, TikTok, commerce and all that kind of stuff is growing. And you touched on, something before we started the call actually, which kind of relates to that, the ability to see something on a device and just purchase it there and then. And within TikTok you get that experience. Within a typical e-commerce platform, you have a flow that you go through. You&#8217;ve got the cart, and then the checkout. You&#8217;ve got to populate details. So yeah, I think there&#8217;s gonna be a, an evolution into how quickly can I buy something. And that&#8217;s what the merchants want. Whether it&#8217;s good for the population and spending habits, I&#8217;m not entirely sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I personally love the experience on, like Amazon, for example, and I don&#8217;t know how long they&#8217;ve had it, it&#8217;s been there a while now. But on product pages, you don&#8217;t need to go through the cart process, you can just click buy now. Although that has tripped me up a couple of times.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:53] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, me too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:54] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> You press buy now, and it goes on some card that you never use.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So yeah, I think that is a definite kind of trend, that I&#8217;ve seen a lot of. And I think we touched on something earlier as well, which I haven&#8217;t seen much in the way of solutions to it. But one of the key things about people buying from a brick and mortar is that they can try on the product and they can physically see the color of a product, and touch the product. Which is possible. You can order now and it&#8217;s getting a lot easier to return stuff. But can you do that with a sofa, for example? So, I expect that we&#8217;ll see some innovations around that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Sort of augmented solution, where you can drop room and, yeah, size it up, and things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:38] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Yeah. I don&#8217;t know what that looks like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> No, and it will be sort of a strange simulation of reality, but probably enough to get a proportion of the people over the wire, I would&#8217;ve thought.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:48] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Yeah, for sure. There&#8217;s been AR stuff for a while now, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:51] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, and things like, you want to put a logo on a t-shirt, here&#8217;s what that look like on the t-shirt. Those kind of things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think for me, one of the most, most interesting things is what the mobile wallets have done to my capacity to spend. I just that is remarkable. Especially out in the real world where you take the Tube in London, the underground, and you just don&#8217;t do anything anymore. You just walk by a thing, and your phone&#8217;s in your pocket, and it registers it, and you walk out and at the end of the day you get a bill, and so these kind of seamless solutions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:21] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> I don&#8217;t feel like you have that so much on a computer though.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> No, but I wonder if that&#8217;s coming with, I don&#8217;t know, biometrics. Like purchase this, put your finger print in, your done.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:33] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> I think that would be nice. I still populate, I use 1Password, so it does it for me, but I still populate the card.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> An intermediary, a trusted intermediary getting in the way. Yeah, it&#8217;s interesting. Again, I wonder if those kind of things might be handled natively by browsers, and things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anyway, we&#8217;re sort of staring into the future, and we&#8217;ve no idea. But I know that you&#8217;ve got to go in about 30 seconds time, so I will just round it off by saying James Kemp, fascinating chat about all things WooCommerce. I appreciate it, and all the hard work you and your team are doing to democratize e-commerce. Is there anything you want to add just before we round it off? Maybe a Twitter handle or something like that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:08] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> I&#8217;m jamesckemp on most things. C, the letter C. Yeah. The only thing I&#8217;ll add is just, if you have questions, ideas, theories, my dms are open there, so I&#8217;m happy to hear it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Well, thank you very much, James Kemp. Been a pleasure chatting to you today. Really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:25] <strong>James Kemp:</strong> Thank you very much.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://x.com/jamesckemp\">James Kemp</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>James is the Core Product Lead for WooCommerce. After working with WooCommerce running a plugin shop for 10 years, he joined the team at the end of 2023 to help shape the future of e-commerce.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>James talks about his journey with WordPress and WooCommerce and explains his role at Automattic, where he&#8217;s tasked with connecting the community&#8217;s feedback to the developments in WooCommerce, ensuring that the Woo platform continually evolves and improves.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He discusses the innovations within WooCommerce, the challenges of balancing the needs of small and large-scale stores, and how the team navigates an environment filled with both competitors and opportunities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He gets into the positive impact of WooCommerce&#8217;s recent rebranding, and how the system positions itself amidst the ever-growing competition from SaaS platforms like Shopify. James shares his insights into the trends shaping e-commerce, like the seamless integration of newer technologies and consumer buying habits.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you are keen to understand the breadth of WooCommerce&#8217;s impact on e-commerce, or are curious about the direction of online shopping, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://woocommerce.com/\">WooCommerce</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://iconicwp.com/\">IconicWP</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://kestrelwp.com/\">Kestrel WP</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://mindsize.com/author/pmgarman/\">Patrick Garmen</a> from Mindsize</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://woocommerce.com/newsroom/\">Woo Newsroom</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://storeleads.app/\">Store Leads</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://developer.woocommerce.com/2024/12/12/woocommerce-in-2025/\">Details about &#8216;More in Core&#8217;</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/podcasts/inside-woo/\">Inside Woo podcast</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://x.com/jamesckemp\">James on X</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 05 Mar 2025 15:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:17;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:82:\"Do The Woo Community: Decentralized Social Networks &amp; WordPress with Alex Kirk\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=91326\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:75:\"https://dothewoo.io/decentralized-social-networks-wordpress-with-alex-kirk/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:178:\"In the episode of Open Web Conversations, Matthias talks with Alex about the Friends plugin, decentralized networks, and transforming WordPress into a social networking platform.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 05 Mar 2025 13:54:45 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:18;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:58:\"Do The Woo Community: WP Day and WP Zone at CloudFest 2025\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=92418\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:62:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/wp-day-and-wp-zone-at-cloudfest-2025/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:195:\"CloudFest 2025 will occur from March 17-20 in Germany, featuring the WP Zone to connect WordPress and cloud communities, offering networking, tools, and collaboration opportunities for attendees.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 05 Mar 2025 09:31:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:19;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"HeroPress: From Warfare to WordPress: How We Survived and Transformed\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"https://heropress.com/?post_type=heropress-essays&p=7787\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:188:\"https://heropress.com/essays/from-warfare-to-wordpress-how-we-survived-and-transformed/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=from-warfare-to-wordpress-how-we-survived-and-transformed\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7839:\"<img width=\"1024\" height=\"512\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/030325-min.jpg\" class=\"attachment-large size-large wp-post-image\" alt=\"Pull Quote: WordPress kept us afloat. It fed us.\" />\nHere is Aleksandr reading his own story aloud.\n\n\n\n\n\n<p>Dedicated to the third sorrowful anniversary of the war. With gratitude to our European partners.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-a-company-built-in-the-heart-of-kharkiv\">A Company Built in the Heart of Kharkiv</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Before the war, our company was thriving in the center of Kharkiv — a large, developed, and beautiful million-strong city. We lived and worked just 45 kilometers away from what turned out to be a massive ticking time bomb.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We had just completed a beautiful new office renovation — a space filled with energy, collaboration, and ambition. At the time, DreamDev had two divisions: one handling large-scale projects with Laravel and Vue.js, and the other — a WordPress agency primarily working with Elementor and WPBakery.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We believed our future lay in big, ambitious U.S. projects. We chased tight deadlines, endured weekend calls, and thrived under pressure. It was exhausting and stressful, but we had no idea that the real challenge was yet to come.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-february-24-2022-the-day-our-world-collapsed\">February 24, 2022 – The Day Our World Collapsed</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>No one believed war was possible. Even as rumors spread, we convinced ourselves: </p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>&#8220;This can’t happen. Not here. Not in the 21st century&#8221;&nbsp;</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>Then, at 4 AM on February 24, our world turned upside down. Our work chats flooded with messages: &#8220;The war has started.&#8221; Explosions shook the city. The sky turned red with fire. Deafening sounds filled the air. We later learned they were Grad rockets, but at that moment, all we felt was shock, fear, and disbelief.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Our brand-new office stood empty. The streets outside looked like a scene from a dystopian movie — people running, children crying, cars were abandoned. As we hurried to gather what we could, Russian tanks were already at the city’s outskirts.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And just like that, a new chapter of DreamDev’s story had begun.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-survival-mode-when-there-s-no-plan-just-action\">Survival Mode: When There’s No Plan, Just Action</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>We left Kharkiv, seeking shelter in an old house on the city’s outskirts — a place built before World War I. A war from another time, yet history was repeating itself. Our memories from those first days are scattered, and fragmented — banks stopped working, teammates went silent, chaos spread. We had no answers. But we had work. So, five days into the war, we sent out a message to our partners: <em>&#8220;Please don’t worry. We are still working.&#8221;</em></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-losing-everything-and-gaining-something-even-greater\">Losing Everything – and Gaining Something Even Greater</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Then came the real test. Most of our U.S. partners left. A major Norwegian project was scared to death of the news and canceled the team of 3 developers and a PM working for them. We lost our biggest contracts. But something we never expected happened:<br />Every single one of our European partners stayed. Not only that — they gave us even more projects.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They believed in us. They supported us. And because of them, we survived. Laravel projects disappeared. We lost key developers. But WordPress kept us afloat. It fed us. It fed our families in the hardest moments.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we focused on what we did best: custom, complex WordPress development.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The team kept evolving. We became our own sales department, reaching out from a century-old house while watching missiles hit the heart of Kharkiv and fighter jets fall from the sky.</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>&#8220;I will never forget the sound of a plane flying over my head. The mushroom cloud rising above the Officers&#8217; House. The windows in my home were blown out by the blast wave.&#8221;</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>At that time, only four of us remained in Kharkiv — two founders, our HR manager, and a project manager. Everyone else had left.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-back-to-the-office-and-into-the-fire\">Back to the Office – And Into the Fire</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>After six months of working from home, we made the decision: Return to the office. Every commute felt like it could be the last. But we had no choice — we had to keep moving forward.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>By the end of 2022, we fully committed to what we did best: custom WordPress development and complex UX/UI design</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It was hard. It was frustrating. But it was stimulating. At this point, it felt like a survival game.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-blackouts-bombs-and-business-as-usual\">Blackouts, Bombs, and Business as Usual</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>As Russian missiles targeted Ukraine’s power grid, the country was plunged into darkness. The only sound? Generators humming in the streets. We spent hours hunting for an internet connection, sitting in gas stations, just to tell our partners: </p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>&#8220;We are alive. Your project will be delivered on time.&#8221;&nbsp;</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>With no electricity, no news, and no phone signal, we kept working. Our European partners kept us afloat.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-the-team-that-never-stopped\">The Team That Never Stopped</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>By 2023, almost our entire pre-war team was gone. New faces joined, but the spirit remained the same: Adapt. Survive. Deliver.</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>We worked without electricity, without water, without heating. </p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>Some in Kharkiv, some in Poltava, some in Dnipro. But we never stopped building. Reflecting on the past, it&#8217;s hard to believe that we were able to endure and remain steadfast.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-2024-wordpress-is-changing-so-are-we\">2024: WordPress Is Changing. So Are We.</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>This year, WordPress is evolving — the rise of low-code and no-code solutions is shifting the landscape. The war’s impact on the European economy&#8217;s growth and projects is slowing down. But our partners — the ones who stood by us — were still here.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-2025-the-war-continues-but-so-do-we\">2025: The War Continues, But So Do We</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>The war isn’t over. And yet, the partners and teammates who believed in us never left. This is more than just WordPress development. This is resilience. This is survival. This is the future we are building together.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id7787_60f515-6b alignfull kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-1-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7787_2a9fc3-fa\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<p class=\"kt-adv-heading7787_deaaf3-3e wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\">Editor&#8217;s Note: The normal fee for the banner for this essay will instead be donated to a charity that supports Ukraine.</p>\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div><p>The post <a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/from-warfare-to-wordpress-how-we-survived-and-transformed/\">From Warfare to WordPress: How We Survived and Transformed</a> appeared first on <a href=\"https://heropress.com\">HeroPress</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 05 Mar 2025 06:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Aleks Bochlin\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:20;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:40:\"WordPress.org blog: WordPress 6.8 Beta 1\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=18582\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2025/03/wordpress-6-8-beta-1/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:10437:\"<p>WordPress 6.8 Beta 1 is ready for download and testing!</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>This beta version of the WordPress software is under development.</strong> Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites. Instead, set up a test environment or a local site to explore the new features.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to Test WordPress 6.8 Beta 1</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>You can test this beta release in any of the following ways:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<table class=\"has-fixed-layout\"><tbody><tr><td><strong>WordPress Beta Tester Plugin</strong></td><td>Install and activate the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-beta-tester/\">WordPress Beta Tester</a> plugin on a WordPress install. Select the “Bleeding edge” channel and “Beta/RC Only” stream.</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Direct Download</strong></td><td>Download the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.8-beta1.zip\">Beta 1 version (zip)</a> and install it on a WordPress website.</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Command Line (WP-CLI)</strong></td><td>Use this <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/cli/\">WP-CLI</a> command: <code>wp core update --version=6.8-beta1</code></td></tr><tr><td><strong>WordPress Playground</strong></td><td>Use a <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?php=8.0&wp=beta&networking=no&language=&multisite=no&random=r8nny4q18x\">6.8 Beta 1 WordPress Playground instance</a> to test the software directly in your browser. No setup required–-just click and go!</td></tr></tbody></table>\n\n\n\n<p>The scheduled final release date for WordPress 6.8 is <strong>April 15, 2025</strong>. Your help testing Beta and RC versions over the next six weeks is vital to ensuring the final release is everything it should be: stable, powerful, and intuitive.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How important is your testing?</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Testing for issues is a critical part of developing any software, and it’s a meaningful way for anyone to contribute—whether or not you have experience.&nbsp; <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2025/03/04/help-test-wordpress-6-8/\">Details on what to test in WordPress 6.8 are here</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you encounter an issue, please share it in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">Alpha/Beta area</a> of the support forums. If you are comfortable submitting a reproducible bug report, you can do so <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/newticket\">via WordPress Trac</a>. You can also check your issue against this list of <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/major\">known bugs</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Curious about testing releases in general and how to get started? Follow along with the<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/\"> testing initiatives in Make Core</a> and join the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/messages/core-test/\">#core-test channel</a> on <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/\">Making WordPress Slack</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.8 will include many new features that were previously only available in the Gutenberg plugin. Learn more about Gutenberg updates since WordPress 6.7 in the<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/gutenberg-new/\"> What’s New in Gutenberg</a> posts for versions<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/09/what-is-new-in-gutenberg-18-5-05-jun/\"> </a><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/10/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-9-31-may-2/\">19.4</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/10/24/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-5-23-october/\">19.5</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/11/06/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-9-31-may-2-2/\">19.6</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/11/20/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-7-20-november/\">19.7</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/12/04/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-8-4-december/\">19.8</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/12/18/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-9-19-december/\">19.9</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/01/11/whats-new-in-gutenberg-20-0-10-january/\">20.0</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/02/08/whats-new-in-gutenberg-20-1-and-20-2/\">20.1, 20.2</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/03/03/whats-new-in-gutenberg-20-3-18-february/\">20.3</a>, and 20.4.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s New in WordPress 6.8 Beta 1</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>This is a polish release, with user enhancements throughout incorporated into the latest Gutenberg updates. WordPress 6.8 brings a luster and gloss that only a polish release can.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.8 Beta 1 contains over 370 enhancements and 520 bug fixes for the editor, including design improvements, polishing the query loop, and more than <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&milestone=6.8&group=component&max=500&col=id&col=summary&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&col=component&col=version&order=priority\">230 tickets for WordPress 6.8 Core</a>. Here’s a glimpse of what’s coming:</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Editor improvements</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Easier ways to see your options in Data Views, and you can opt to ignore sticky posts in the Query Loop. Plus you’ll find lots of little improvements in the editor!</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The Style Book comes to Classic themes</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The Style Book now features a <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/68036\">structured layout</a> so you can preview site colors, typography, and block styles more easily. You can use the Style Book in classic themes with editor-styles or a theme.json file and includes clearer labels, and you can find them under <code>Appearance &gt; Design</code>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Support for Speculation browser API</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.8 introduces native support for speculative loading, leveraging the <a href=\"https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Speculation_Rules_API\">Speculation Rules API</a> to improve site performance with near-instant page loads. This feature prefetches or prerenders URLs based on user interactions, such as hovering over links, reducing load times for subsequent pages.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>By default, WordPress 6.8 applies a conservative prefetching strategy, balancing performance gains with resource efficiency. Developers can customize speculative loading behavior using new filters, since the API does not include UI-based controls. The existing <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/speculation-rules/\">Speculative Loading feature plugin</a> will adapt to the core implementation, allowing deeper customization.&nbsp; Please test this feature in supported browsers (currently Chrome 108+ and Edge 108+, with more browsers evaluating) and provide feedback on <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/62503\">#62503</a> to help refine its implementation.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Major security boost</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.8 will use bcrypt for password hashing, which <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/02/17/wordpress-6-8-will-use-bcrypt-for-password-hashing/\">significantly hardens WordPress.</a> Other hashing is getting hardened, too, throughout the security apparatus. You won’t have to change anything in your daily workflow.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>The features included in this first beta may change before the final release of WordPress 6.8, based on what testers like you find.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Get an overview of the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-8/\">6.8 release cycle</a> and check the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/\">Make WordPress Core blog</a> for<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/6-8/\"> 6.8-related posts</a> in the next few weeks for further details.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Caveat on testing 6.8 Beta 1 in versions older than 5.1</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Due to an update made to the upgrade routine during this release, (see <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/changeset/59803\">r59803</a>), any upgrade from versions older than 5.1 will fail. Folks are working to resolve this specific issue, so please hold off on reporting on this while testing the Beta 1 release.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Vulnerability bounty doubles during Beta &amp; Release Candidate</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>The WordPress community sponsors a <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/security/2024/02/12/welcoming-2024-with-wordpress-6-5-beta-1/\">monetary reward for reporting new, unreleased security vulnerabilities</a>. This reward doubles during the period between Beta 1 on March 4, 2025 and the final Release Candidate (RC) scheduled for April 15, 2025.&nbsp; Please follow responsible disclosure practices as detailed in the project’s security practices and policies. You can find those on the <a href=\"https://hackerone.com/wordpress\">HackerOne page</a> and in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/security/\">security white paper</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Just for you: a Beta 1 haiku</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>March winds shift the tide.<br />Hands unite in open source;<br />WordPress moves ahead.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\"><em>Props to <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>audrasjb</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marybaum/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>marybaum</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mamaduka/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>mamaduka</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/michelleames/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>michelleames</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bph/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>bph</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>jorbin</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joemcgill/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>joemcgill</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/krupajnanda/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>krupajnanda</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/desrosj/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>desrosj</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjamin_zekavica/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>benjamin_zekavica</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lysyjan87/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>lysyjan87</a></em> <em>for reviewing and collaborating on this post!</em></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 04 Mar 2025 17:09:45 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Jeffrey Paul\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:21;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:57:\"Do The Woo Community: All Things CloudFest Hackathon 2025\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=92329\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"https://dothewoo.io/all-things-cloudfest-hackathon-2025/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:210:\"In this podcast episode, hosts and guests discuss the upcoming CloudFest Hackathon, focusing on project contributions, collaboration opportunities, and the engagement of first-time partners to enhance outcomes.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 04 Mar 2025 15:46:26 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:22;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:26:\"Matt: On Lenny’s Podcast\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=139675\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:37:\"https://ma.tt/2025/03/lennys-podcast/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1668:\"<p>One of my must-read newsletters for the past several years has been <a href=\"https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/\">Lenny&#8217;s Newsletter</a>, probably best known for its writing on growth and product management, which really means it covered everything you need to create a great company. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It expanded into a really well-done podcast; Lenny has always had a knack for finding the best guests and asking the best questions, so when he invited me on I was very excited.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He really wanted to address some of the things that people said I wasn&#8217;t being asked, so we do touch on the WP Engine / Silver Lake attacks, but we also covered a lot of my philosophy of why open source is important, philanthropy, and why you should build a movement, not just a product.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>You can <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fves5chVZRA\">watch it on YouTube</a>, or <a href=\"https://pca.st/episode/ebb90f87-32fb-4a11-9f6e-30e51296d3fb\">listen to it on your favorite podcast app like Pocket Casts</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some others he has done that I really enjoyed are <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTr21kgCFF4\">Nan Yu from Linear</a>, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOGK1nlHdFo\">Marc Benioff from Salesforce</a>, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfEEcssu304\">Katie Dill from Stripe</a>, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDq6_CPaRjM\">Mihika Kapoor from Figma</a>, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egdYKLBswgk\">Drew Houston from Dropbox</a>, and of course the famous <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ef0juAMqoE\">Founder Mode one with Brian Chesky</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 04 Mar 2025 14:19:50 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:23;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:76:\"Do The Woo Community: Marketing Strategies for Every Level of a Woo Business\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=91945\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/marketing-strategies-for-every-level-of-a-woo-business/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:241:\"Successful marketing strategies vary based on business stages. From solopreneurs to large firms, understanding owned, earned, and paid media, branding confidence, and purposeful engagement is essential for effective growth and communication.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 04 Mar 2025 11:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:24;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"Do The Woo Community: From Idea to WordPress Product with Derek Ashauer\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=91319\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:70:\"https://dothewoo.io/from-idea-to-wordpress-product-with-derek-ashauer/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:217:\"Mark Westguard chats with Derek Ashauer about his transition from client work to creating WordPress plugins, particularly focusing on his latest product, Conversion Bridge, designed for simplified conversion tracking.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 03 Mar 2025 16:11:27 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:25;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"Gravatar: How to Personalize Your Customer Onboarding for Better Retention\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=2545\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:66:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2025/02/28/customer-onboarding-strategy/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:21872:\"<p>Getting your customer onboarding right can make the difference between long-term success and early user drop-off. But a generic approach won&#8217;t cut it – you need to personalize your message to keep users engaged and active.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Smart personalization strategies help users find value faster in your product. So, naturally, companies that tailor their onboarding see higher retention rates, increased feature adoption, and stronger customer relationships. Their users are more likely to become product champions and recommend the service to others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the numbers back this up. In <a href=\"https://business.adobe.com/content/dam/dx/us/en/resources/reports/the-business-impact-of-investing-in-experience-forrester-thought-leadership-paper-2021/the-business-impact-of-investing-in-experience-forrester-thought-leadership-paper-2021.pdf\">research by Forrester</a>, businesses that have invested in building better customer and prospect experiences see up to 20% more improvement in customer retention and 25% in customer lifetime value compared to businesses that don’t.   </p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1618\" height=\"641\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/study-results-personalized-experiences.png\" alt=\"Comparing customer, revenue, and employee benefits between experience-driven companies and non-experience-driven companies\" class=\"wp-image-2549\" />\n\n\n\n<p>This guide breaks down proven strategies to create personalized onboarding experiences that stick. From sign-up optimization to data-driven improvements, you&#8217;ll learn practical techniques to transform your onboarding into a powerful retention tool.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Step 1: Effortless sign-up process</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>A streamlined sign-up process sets the tone for your entire <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/09/06/onboarding-user-experience/\">user experience</a>. The challenge? Balancing the need to collect essential user data while keeping friction low. Too many form fields can drive users away, while too few might limit your ability to personalize their experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Start by identifying the minimum information needed to provide value. For most products, this includes an email address, name, password, and their role or use case. Many companies ask for the company website and department, as well.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>From the beginning of the process, you can use <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a> to help you out.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"2160\" height=\"1140\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/gravatar-paas-wordpress.png\" alt=\"Gravatar – Profile as a Service \" class=\"wp-image-2550\" />\n\n\n\n<p>For example, if you’re using WordPress to build your website, some level of Gravatar functionality will already be enabled. <a href=\"http://wordpress.org\">WordPress.org</a> will automatically pull in user avatars, or <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/07/19/wordpress-profile-picture/\">profile pictures</a>, connected to their Gravatar profiles.</p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1744\" height=\"946\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/wordpress-org-gravatar-profile-picture.png\" alt=\"Profile picture in WordPress.org\" class=\"wp-image-2552\" />\n\n\n\n<p>However, you can extend this in a massive way, through the free <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/gravatar-enhanced/\">Gravatar Enhanced plugin</a> to add features like the profile block, which is perfect for author pages and websites focused on creating a community. This block lets you automatically display user information pulled in from their profiles, such as their bio and verified links.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"660\" height=\"377\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/gravatar-profile-block.png?w=660\" alt=\"Gravatar profile block\" class=\"wp-image-2575\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Another option to integrate Gravatar on a deeper level is with the <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/03/profiles-as-a-service/\">REST API</a> – and you can do this whether you’re on a WordPress website or not. This allows you to auto-populate user profiles instantly when someone signs up with their email address. This reduces manual data entry while still gathering rich profile information for personalization, which is especially effective with <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/10/08/saas-onboarding-checklist/\">SaaS onboarding</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/getting-started/\"><img width=\"3242\" height=\"729\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/gravatar_integration_cta.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2632\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<p>What makes this a gamechanger is that all websites that integrate with Gravatar pull in information from a unified source, which allows you to create familiar experience for users across multiple platforms while reducing sign-up friction.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Want to take it further? Use progressive profiling:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Collect essential information during sign-up.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ask for additional details as users engage with specific features.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use behavior patterns to build user profiles over time.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Allow users to import data from existing profiles.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Remember to test different form variations with real users. Track completion rates and drop-off points to optimize the process continuously.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Step 2: Automated welcome email</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>The welcome email acts as your first direct communication with new users. It needs to accomplish several goals while remaining clear and engaging.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, to make your welcome email effective, you need to first use an effective subject line. Here are some examples:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>&#8220;Welcome to [Product] – Here&#8217;s your next step&#8221;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>&#8220;You&#8217;re in! Let&#8217;s get started with [Product]&#8221;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>&#8220;[Name], welcome aboard! Your account is ready&#8221;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>If you’re not sure what to include, you can structure the email content like this:</p>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Start with a personal greeting using their name.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Confirm their account creation.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Highlight one clear next action.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Include essential links without overwhelming them.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, this is the welcome email we send to our users when they create a Gravatar profile:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<table class=\"has-fixed-layout\"><tbody><tr><td>Hello!<strong>Your email now has a profile!</strong>There are two things you should know about Gravatar:<strong>Your email can introduce yourself</strong><br /><img width=\"976\" height=\"480\" class=\"wp-image-2553\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/gravatar-profiles-across-different-websites.gif\" alt=\"\" /><br />Anytime you share your email, it’s like handing over a digital business card. Your Gravatar profile automatically appears on any Gravatar-enabled site, so you can feel at home instantly. Your avatar and identity follow you seamlessly across the web. Say goodbye to filling out profile forms all over the web.<br /><br /><strong>One link, all about you</strong><br /><img width=\"976\" height=\"480\" class=\"wp-image-2557\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/gravatar-free-profile-website.png\" alt=\"\" /><br />Your Gravatar account comes with a free profile website.<br /><br />It’s a brief introduction of yourself and the perfect way to share where people can find you online. Customize the design and your profile URL. Simple. Make it yours!<br /><br />Any questions? You know where you can find us <img src=\"https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/1f609.png\" alt=\"😉\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> &#8211; Ask us anything! Or just reply to this email.</td></tr></tbody></table>\n\n\n\n<p><img src=\"https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/2728.png\" alt=\"✨\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /><strong>Pro tip:</strong><strong><em> </em></strong><em>With Gravatar integration, you can personalize the greeting with the user&#8217;s preferred name and include their profile image, making the email feel more personal and familiar.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Step 3: Follow-up email to initiate the onboarding process</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Send this email 24-48 hours after the welcome message. Its purpose? Moving users from sign-up to actual engagement with your product.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A strong follow-up email includes:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Recognition of whether they&#8217;ve logged in yet.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>One specific action they can take right now.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Clear value proposition for that action.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Estimated time commitment.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Here&#8217;s a tested template:</p>\n\n\n\n<table class=\"has-fixed-layout\"><tbody><tr><td><strong>Subject:</strong> Ready for your first [specific win] with [Product]?<br /><br />Hi [Name],<br /><br /><strong>Quick check-in:</strong> Have you had a chance to [specific action] yet?&nbsp;<br />It takes just 5 minutes to [achieve specific outcome]. Here&#8217;s how:<br /><br />1. Log in to your account<br />2. Click on [feature]<br />3. [Simple action step]<br /><br />Tip: Users who complete this step see [specific benefit] within [timeframe].<br />Need help? Reply to this email or book a quick call: [calendar link]</td></tr></tbody></table>\n\n\n\n<p>Using Gravatar&#8217;s API, you can adapt this email based on the user&#8217;s professional background or location. For instance, customize examples and use cases that match their industry.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Step 4: Choosing the right onboarding strategy for your product</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Selecting the right onboarding approach determines how effectively users will adopt your product. Let&#8217;s examine four proven strategies and when to use each one.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>One-on-one onboarding</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Enterprise software with complex implementations demands personal attention. This high-touch approach works best for products with annual contract values above $10,000 or solutions requiring custom workflows. The direct interaction helps catch potential issues early and ensures users extract maximum value.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tips for successful one-on-one onboarding:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Record sessions for future reference.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Create custom agendas based on user roles.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Set clear milestones for each call.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Follow up with written summaries.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Track time to first value achievement.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Monitor customer satisfaction scores.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Group onboarding</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Mid-market solutions and team-based tools often benefit from group sessions. This approach builds community while efficiently onboarding multiple users who share similar needs. It&#8217;s particularly effective for products where users can learn from each other&#8217;s questions and use cases.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Keys to effective group onboarding:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Segment sessions by industry or use case.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Keep groups small (5-8 participants).</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Include hands-on exercises.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Encourage peer learning.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Schedule sessions across convenient time zones.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Self-service onboarding</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Products with straightforward features or tech-savvy user bases thrive with self-service onboarding. This approach scales efficiently for high-volume, lower-price products where personal attention isn&#8217;t cost-effective.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Essential self-service elements include:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Interactive product tours.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Short video tutorials.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Progress tracking.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Clear success milestones.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Help documentation.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Chat support option.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Hybrid approach</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Many successful products combine multiple approaches. Use self-service for basic features, group sessions for advanced functionality, and one-on-one support for custom needs. This flexibility lets you match support levels to user needs and value.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Implementation strategies:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Use data to trigger different support levels.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Monitor user progress automatically.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Offer easy ways to upgrade support.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Track which methods work best for different segments.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Adjust based on user feedback and engagement metrics.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Step 5: Setting initial goals and milestones</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Setting clear goals with users creates momentum and drives engagement. The trick lies in balancing ambition with achievability – goals should stretch users while remaining within reach. Success starts by understanding what matters most to each user through direct conversations about the problems they&#8217;re trying to solve and their vision for the first 30 days.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Break larger objectives into manageable milestones. The first milestone should be achievable within 24-48 hours of signup, building confidence and showing immediate progress. Follow this with weekly targets for the first month, then transition to monthly milestones.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Simple gamification elements can boost motivation:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Progress bars showing completion status.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Achievement badges for hitting milestones.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Team leaderboards for group implementations.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar integration enhances this experience by displaying user avatars alongside achievements and in team views. This personalization makes the journey feel more engaging and tailored to each user.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><img src=\"https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/2728.png\" alt=\"✨\" class=\"wp-smiley\" />Tip:</strong> <em>Set up automated monitoring to flag when users struggle with specific milestones. This allows customer success teams to step in proactively with support. Stay flexible and adjust goals based on user feedback and behavior patterns.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Step 6: Strategies for personalized onboarding</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Personalization transforms generic onboarding into targeted experiences that resonate with users. Advanced strategies go beyond basic segmentation, using real-time data and behavior patterns to adapt the experience for each user.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, you can use AI-driven paths to analyze user actions and modify the onboarding flow automatically. So, when a user struggles with a specific feature, the system can offer extra guidance or suggest alternative approaches. This dynamic adaptation ensures users get help exactly when they need it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Integrating Gravatar adds another layer of personalization from the first interaction. The API provides valuable context about user roles and industries, allowing you to <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/08/16/user-experience-personalization/\">customize the UI</a>,&nbsp; examples, and terminology accordingly. A developer might see technical implementation details, while a marketing professional receives analytics-focused guidance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Micro-segmentation takes this further by combining behavioral data with profile insights. For example:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Tailor feature introductions based on past product usage.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Adjust communication frequency by engagement levels.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Customize success metrics for different roles.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Remember that <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/09/03/app-onboarding/\">in-app guidance</a> should feel natural and contextual. Rather than overwhelming users with information, show relevant tips when they&#8217;re most likely to need them. This might mean highlighting advanced features only after users master basics or suggesting integrations when usage patterns indicate they&#8217;d be valuable.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Step 7: Provide access to a detailed knowledge base</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>An effective knowledge base empowers users to find answers on their own terms. Rather than forcing users to contact support for every question, good documentation lets them solve problems at their own pace.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here’s what we recommend:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Build your knowledge base around user needs, not product features.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Start with common questions and problems users face during onboarding.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Structure content in a logical flow that matches the user&#8217;s learning curve – from basic setup to advanced features.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Video tutorials and interactive guides complement written documentation. Short screencast tutorials work well for showing complex processes, while step-by-step guides help users implement specific features. Keep videos brief and focused on single tasks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>AI-powered search helps users find relevant information quickly. Smart categorization and related article suggestions guide users to helpful resources they might have missed. Think of your knowledge base as a living document and update it based on common support tickets, user feedback, product updates, and usage analytics.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Finally, track which articles users read most and where they spend time. This data reveals gaps in documentation and helps prioritize future content creation.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Step 8: Strategies for checking in with customers</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Regular check-ins help spot potential issues before they become problems. The best check-ins feel natural, not forced, and happen at moments that matter to users.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The best strategy is combining automated and personal outreach based on user behavior. After major milestones, send congratulatory messages with tips for the next steps. If usage drops suddenly, trigger a friendly check-in to offer help. Schedule more detailed reviews after the first week and first month to ensure users stay on track.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Personal check-ins should focus on learning, not just status updates. Ask specific questions about their experience and goals. For example: &#8220;Has [feature] helped with [specific goal] yet?&#8221; or &#8220;What&#8217;s been the biggest challenge so far?&#8221; These conversations often reveal valuable insights about user needs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You also should have either a live chat option, email support, and/or video calls because they each serve different purposes. Quick questions work well in chat, while video calls help build relationships and tackle complex issues. Use email to share resources and document action items.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Step 9: Iterate based on feedback</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Feedback drives improvement, but only if you act on it systematically. Collect both quantitative data (usage statistics, completion rates) and qualitative insights (user interviews, survey responses) to build a complete picture.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Create feedback loops at every stage of onboarding.</strong> Short in-app surveys capture immediate reactions, while detailed questionnaires after key milestones provide deeper insights. User interviews reveal nuances that numbers alone might miss.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Take action quickly on clear pain points.</strong> If multiple users struggle with the same step, examine it closely. Sometimes, small tweaks, like clearer instructions or simplified workflows, make a big difference. Share improvements with users who provided feedback – it shows you value their input.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Build a systematic approach to evaluating and implementing changes:</strong>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Analyze feedback patterns</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Prioritize high-impact changes</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Test solutions with small user groups</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Monitor results before rolling out widely</li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Enhance your onboarding with Gravatar&#8217;s developer API</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>A strong onboarding process keeps users engaged and helps them find value quickly in your service. By integrating Gravatar&#8217;s developer API, you can create a more personalized, friction-free experience from the first interaction.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Think about your sign-up process. Instead of asking users to fill out multiple fields or upload profile pictures, Gravatar automatically populates this information. Users who already have Gravatar profiles – and there are millions – get a faster, more familiar experience across platforms.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The API opens up creative possibilities beyond basic profile data. Use it to:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Create personalized welcome screens.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Show relevant examples based on user industries.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Build community features with consistent user identities.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Maintain professional profiles across multiple services.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Major platforms like WordPress and Slack already use Gravatar to streamline their onboarding, so what are you waiting for?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://en.gravatar.com/site/implement/\">Check out Gravatar&#8217;s developer documentation</a> to see how easy integration can be. Focus on creating those meaningful first interactions that turn new signups into long-term users.</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/getting-started/\"><img width=\"3242\" height=\"729\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/gravatar_integration_cta.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2632\" /></a>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 28 Feb 2025 16:28:51 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:26;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:57:\"Gravatar: Essential Tips for an Effective Email Signature\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=2673\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:72:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2025/02/28/what-to-include-in-email-signature/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:15603:\"<p>Creating an effective email signature takes more thought than you might expect. Yes, it&#8217;s just a small block of text at the bottom of your emails – but it&#8217;s also a powerful tool for making memorable connections and building your professional reputation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is especially important if you&#8217;re reaching out to potential clients, applying for jobs, or trying to grow your network. Your signature can be the difference between someone remembering you or your message getting lost in their inbox.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But here&#8217;s the challenge: <strong>Finding the right balance</strong>. Add too little information and recipients won&#8217;t know enough about you. Add too much, and your signature becomes cluttered, potentially making your emails look unprofessional or even spammy.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s explore how to craft an email signature that makes an impact, including a smart strategy for sharing more about yourself without overwhelming your recipients.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Checklist of elements to consider in your email signature</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Before diving into specific elements, remember this: You don&#8217;t need to include everything listed below. In fact, that would be counterproductive. Pick the elements that matter most for your professional goals and match your <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/04/10/personal-branding-tools/\">personal brand</a>. And as you&#8217;ll see later,linking to an online profile, such as your <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a>, is a smart way to share additional information without cramming it all into your signature.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here are the essential elements to consider:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Name and title: </strong>Format as &#8220;Name, Title&#8221; for quick scanning. This is non-negotiable – it&#8217;s the foundation of your signature.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Basic contact details: </strong>Include your primary phone number and email address. If you need multiple numbers, use standard notation: (o) for office, (m) for mobile.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Company information: </strong>Add your company name and department if relevant. For freelancers, your business name or professional title works well.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Visual elements:</strong> A small professional headshot or company logo can increase recognition. But keep it modest – aim for subtlety rather than flash.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Social proof: </strong>Choose 2-3 relevant professional profiles. <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/\">LinkedIn</a> is often essential, while other choices depend on your field. A portfolio site works well for creatives, while <a href=\"https://github.com/\">GitHub</a> is a must for developers. And of course, if you need a versatile profile platform that can display a wide range of information, links, and media, all in a compact design, then a Gravatar profile is a must.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, besides these basic elements, there are also some practical additions that would vary based on your needs:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Calendar booking link if you schedule lots of meetings.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Industry certifications for specialized fields.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Office location or timezone for global teams.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Languages spoken for international work.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Pronouns for inclusive communication.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Legal disclaimers if required by your industry.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Remember: <strong>White space is your friend</strong>. A clean, readable signature beats an overcrowded one every time.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Design Tips to make your email signature stand out</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Email signatures need precise design choices to look professional across different devices and email clients. Here&#8217;s how to create one that works everywhere:</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Size guidelines that prevent problems:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Keep the total width under 600px – this ensures your signature displays correctly on mobile devices.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Limit height to 150 or 200px maximum to avoid overwhelming your message.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Size company logos at 100x50px.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Set headshots to 80x80px square.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Leave 10px minimum spacing between elements.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Typography and formatting:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Set your name in 14-16px font size – it should be instantly noticeable.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use 11-12px for contact details and other information.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Stick to standard, professional fonts like Arial or Helvetica.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Pick two brand colors at most, plus black or gray for text.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Organize information in order of importance.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use simple separators like pipes ( | ) between elements.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Technical requirements to prevent display issues:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Apply inline CSS to maintain consistent formatting.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Structure elements to stack properly on mobile screens.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Test your signature in major email clients (<a href=\"https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/outlook/email-and-calendar-software-microsoft-outlook\">Outlook</a>, <a href=\"https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/\">Gmail</a>, <a href=\"https://www.icloud.com/mail/\">Apple Mail</a>).</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Compress images under 40KB to ensure quick loading.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Hierarchy matters – put your most important information first. Think about what your recipient needs to know right away versus what can go below. A clear structure with proper spacing helps readers find what they need quickly.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Examples of well-designed email signatures</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>To help you get inspired, here are some interesting templates from <a href=\"https://www.canva.com/search?q=email+signature\">Canva</a> that really capture what makes a great email signature.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Minimalistic signature without a headshot:&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"660\" height=\"330\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/black-white-minimalist-personal-professional-email-signature.png?w=660\" alt=\"Example of a minimalistic email signature for a manager\" class=\"wp-image-2676\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Elegant signature with a photo:&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"660\" height=\"330\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/white-simple-real-estate-business-email-signature.png?w=660\" alt=\"Example of a simplistic email signature for a real estate agent \" class=\"wp-image-2677\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Another design for a real estate agent with a cover photo.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"660\" height=\"330\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/black-and-yellow-elegant-realtor-email-signature.png?w=660\" alt=\"Example of an email signature for a real estate agent with a cover photo\" class=\"wp-image-2678\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>A very unique approach for a graphic designer, allowing them to show their creativity even through their email signature.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"660\" height=\"330\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/orange-green-gradient-creative-graphic-designer-email-signature.png?w=660\" alt=\"Example of an email signature for a graphic designer\" class=\"wp-image-2680\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Automating design with an email signature generator</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>While working with a designer gives you the most polished results, email signature generators offer a practical starting point. These tools handle the technical details and help you create something professional without diving into HTML or CSS.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here are some reliable options:</p>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><a href=\"https://www.hubspot.com/email-signature-generator\"><strong>HubSpot Email Signature Generator (Free)</strong></a></h4>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"660\" height=\"404\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/hubspot-email-signature-generator.png?w=660\" alt=\"Hubspot email signature generator\" class=\"wp-image-2681\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Provides clean, professional templates.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Easy to customize colors and layout.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Exports HTML code you can copy directly.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>No account required.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><a href=\"https://www.wisestamp.com/\"><strong>WiseStamp</strong></a></h4>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"660\" height=\"391\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/wisestamp-email-signature-generator.png?w=660\" alt=\"WiseStamp email signature generator\" class=\"wp-image-2682\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Offers multiple professional templates.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Integrates with major email clients.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Includes advanced features like banners.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Paid plans start at $5.80/month.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Also offers an email signature management service.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><a href=\"https://newoldstamp.com/\"><strong>NewOldStamp</strong></a></h4>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"660\" height=\"355\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/newoldstamp-graphbic.png?w=660\" alt=\"NewOldStamp homepage\" class=\"wp-image-2683\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Built for teams and companies.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Manages signatures across departments.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ensures brand consistency.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Team pricing available.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><a href=\"https://www.canva.com/\"><strong>Canva</strong></a></h4>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"660\" height=\"455\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/canva-brand-kit.png?w=660\" alt=\"Example of a Canva editor with the brand kit feature\" class=\"wp-image-2679\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>A wide variety of email signature templates.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Interesting graphics and design tools.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>An AI writing and design tool for the PRO version.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Versatile applications – use it for marketing campaigns, social media, blog posts, etc.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Lets you create a brand kit to use on all your visuals.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Why you should link to your Gravatar profile for more impact</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"660\" height=\"457\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/ronnie-gravatar-profile.png?w=660\" alt=\"Ronnie Burt’s Gravatar profile\" class=\"wp-image-2684\" />\n\n\n\n<p>An email signature has limited space, but your <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/profile\">Gravatar profile</a> can showcase everything about your professional identity, just like a <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/11/08/creating-a-digital-business-card/\">dynamic business card</a>. Think of it as an extension of your signature – one that updates automatically across all platforms where you use your email.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Your Gravatar profile becomes a comprehensive hub for:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Professional background and accomplishments.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Portfolio pieces and project highlights.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Complete set of social media profiles.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Full contact information.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Recent blog posts or updates.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Speaking engagements or events.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>The magic happens in the synchronization. Update your Gravatar profile once, and those changes appear everywhere your email is used – including past emails. No need to update multiple signatures or worry about outdated information floating around.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This approach solves a common problem: Keeping professional information current across platforms. A hiring manager might find your year-old email with an outdated job title, but clicking your Gravatar link shows them your current role and achievements.</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gravatar.com/connect/?gravatar_from=blog\"><img width=\"3243\" height=\"729\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/free_profile_cta.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2616\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Crafting CTAs to your Gravatar profile in your email signature</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>One option is to add the Gravatar icon to your email signature as you would for any other online profile. This works well, though as Gravatar can be used for a wide range of purposes it might not give your recipients enough context about what they’ll find when they open it. Another option is to link to your Gravatar profile with clear, action-oriented text that hints at the value:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>&#8220;See my complete portfolio and background.&#8221;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>&#8220;Find my latest projects and contact info.&#8221;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>&#8220;Connect with me professionally.&#8221;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>&#8220;View my full professional profile.&#8221;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Match your CTA to your goals. If you&#8217;re job hunting, emphasize your portfolio. For networking, focus on connection opportunities. The right CTA tells recipients exactly what they&#8217;ll gain by clicking through.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Create an effective email signature with the help of Gravatar</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar actually makes it super easy. Just login to your profile editor, copy your email signature code, and paste it in. </p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"2086\" height=\"970\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/cleanshot-2025-02-18-at-12.24.39402x.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2932\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Here’s how:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Head to&nbsp;<a href=\"http://gravatar.com/profile\">gravatar.com/profile</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>click on&nbsp;<strong><em>Email signature</em></strong>&nbsp;in the bottom left</li>\n\n\n\n<li>grab the code and paste it into Gmail or your email client</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Check out our&nbsp;<a href=\"https://support.gravatar.com/your-profile/email-signature/\">quick setup guides</a>&nbsp;for Gmail, Apple Mail, and other popular email tools.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Email signatures perform a delicate balancing act. Add too much information, and you risk looking unprofessional. Add too little and recipients miss important context about who you are.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Linking to a Gravatar profile offers an elegant solution. Your email signature stays clean and focused, while still giving recipients access to everything they might want to know about you. Plus, you never have to worry about outdated information lingering in old emails – your Gravatar profile updates everywhere, automatically.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here&#8217;s what makes this approach particularly effective:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Recipients get a complete picture of your professional identity.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Your signature stays concise and professional.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Information stays current without manual updates.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Old emails maintain their relevance.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>You control how much information to share.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>A well-crafted email signature paired with a Gravatar profile helps you make stronger professional connections. Recipients can learn exactly what they need about you, whether that&#8217;s your latest work, professional background, or preferred contact methods.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ready to enhance your email signature? <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/profile\">Create your free Gravatar profile </a>and start building a more effective professional presence.</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gravatar.com/connect/?gravatar_from=blog\"><img width=\"3243\" height=\"729\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/free_profile_cta.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2616\" /></a>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 28 Feb 2025 16:27:08 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:27;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:55:\"Do The Woo Community: WordCamp Asia 2025 Photo Memories\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=91875\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:59:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/wordcamp-asia-2025-photo-memories/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:160:\"Well this year I had the opportunity to take just a few more photos despite being incredibly busy with the booth. So as they say, a picture is a thousand words.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 28 Feb 2025 13:22:52 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:28;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"bbPress: bbPress 2.6.12 is out!\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:29:\"https://bbpress.org/?p=243415\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:55:\"https://bbpress.org/blog/2025/02/bbpress-2-6-12-is-out/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1535:\"<p>bbPress 2.6.12 is a <strong>minor</strong> release that fixes <em>1 security issue</em> and <a href=\"https://bbpress.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&milestone=2.6.12\">1 small bug</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The security issue was responsibly disclosed via the <a href=\"https://hackerone.com/wordpress\">WordPress HackerOne bounty program</a>. It does not appear to be actively exploited, and specifically targets: single-site WordPress installations, newer than 5.3.0, with the &#8220;Membership&#8221; setting set to &#8220;Anyone can register&#8221;, and with bbPress active.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>(Even if that isn&#8217;t you, you should still update bbPress to 2.6.12 anyways!)</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p>The minor bug was a regression to the search component introduced in 2.6.11, causing search results to not be as accurate as everyone deserves for them to be. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f575.png\" alt=\"🕵\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Both of these fixes are already merged into the 2.7 development branch.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Thank you to <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gdragon/\"></a><a href=\"https://bbpress.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=!closed&reporter=GDragoN\">GDragoN</a> and mungah (via HackerOne) for your help fixing bugs, and <a href=\"https://bbpress.org/forums/profile/robin-w/\">Robin W</a> for keeping the bbPress.org Forums squeaky clean and well-supported! I really appreciate all of y&#8217;all! <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f41d.png\" alt=\"🐝\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 26 Feb 2025 19:40:24 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:17:\"John James Jacoby\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:29;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:78:\"WPTavern: #158 – John Overall on How Podcasting Shaped His WordPress Journey\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=187567\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:92:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/158-john-overall-on-how-podcasting-shaped-his-wordpress-journey\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48337:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, how podcasting shaped our guests WordPress journey.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:11] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So on the podcast today, we have John Overall. John is a veteran in the WordPress podcasting world, bringing over 16 years of experience with the WP Plugins A to Z show. He&#8217;s an early adopter of WordPress, and has seen the platform evolve and grow, and has built a wealth of knowledge around plugins, which he thinks have been pivotal to WordPress&#8217;s versatility.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>John shares his journey into the world of podcasting, initially using it as a tool to grow his business, and expand his expertise within the WordPress ecosystem. He gets into how the podcast landscape has shifted from its early days to the present, with technological advances making it easier than ever to produce and distribute shows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We talk about the evolution of WordPress plugins, how they have shaped the WordPress platform over the years, and John&#8217;s unique approach to managing and understanding these powerful tools, making a podcast to help him better understand what each plugin does.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>John also shares stories about his interactions with his audience, and how the podcast has forged connections that might not be the norm for client relationships.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We move into the ever changing WordPress environment, and John shares predictions and insights about the platform&#8217;s future, and how he&#8217;s using podcasting as a medium to continually learn and adapt, which in turn benefits his audience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Something new for John is how he&#8217;s involving his family in his podcasting journey. His daughter has breathed new life and perspectives into the show, hoping to appeal to a younger generation while retaining his loyal audience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re passionate about WordPress, podcasting, or just interested in understanding a holistic approach to long-term content creation and audience engagement, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you John Overall.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast by John Overall, how are you doing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:20] <strong>John Overall:</strong> I am doing fantastic, thanks Nathan. I appreciate being on your show.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I am really pleased to have John. I want to call you Jonathan. Is there a time when you were a Jonathan or have I just misremembered?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:31] <strong>John Overall:</strong> No, no, I&#8217;ve been called Jonathan, Johnny, Johnny Boy. I answer to all kinds of names. My mom actually calls me Alan because she refuses to call me John.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Well, it&#8217;s an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Very frequently when I interview people, people tell me that they&#8217;ve listened to my podcast and I find that really, I get quite emotional when people do that, I think that&#8217;s lovely. But the tables are turned, because today I&#8217;m here to say that I have listened to Jonathan&#8217;s podcast many, many times in the past.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I was just saying that there was a period of time in my life when my children went to music lessons. And I used to accompany them to those music lessons, and I had to sit in the, if you call it like a waiting room, basically. Every week I would sit there faithfully listening to your plugin podcast, you know, it was the, we call it A to Z, but you call it A to Z. And I would listen to you talking about plugins, and giving them ratings and what have you with your co-host. And so this is a bit of a stars in my eyes moment. I&#8217;m so pleased to have you on the podcast.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:31] <strong>John Overall:</strong> Well, I appreciate that. And yeah, the WP Plugins A to Z, and we do call it Z here in Canada. But when I had my American co-host in the beginning years, he called it Z. So we used to argue with it. And then we actually have someone, our intro, one of my listeners, he recorded it, and we have a minor intro that says, it&#8217;s WP Plugins, A to Z, not Z. It&#8217;s still something we use. It was generated years ago by one of the listeners. But yeah, it&#8217;s been a longstanding show. It&#8217;s been around for over 16 years now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So I really didn&#8217;t know that podcasts were a thing. And podcasts came into my life at the moment when mobile phones had apps that could do that. I didn&#8217;t listen to them on desktop or anything like that. And it was always for me, a bit of dead time. I wouldn&#8217;t listen to them in the car or anything like that. I would always listen to them in a moment where I was sat in a chair and had nothing else to pay attention to. And I just found them immediately really, really important in my life.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then I found WordPress. And then quickly found a bunch of podcasts which I listened to, and yours was the one that somehow settled in my brain as the, I&#8217;m going to music now, I&#8217;m going to sit for half an hour and consume the podcast.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And really, without listening to podcasts like yours, my life would&#8217;ve been very different, I think. Because it occurred to me that, as I was listening to you and your co-host talk, I got a sense of, well, you&#8217;re not a media personality. You are not somebody who is sitting in some sort of CNN type studio producing content. You are a guy that does the kind of job that I do. And I got a real sense of, gosh, maybe this is something that I could explore at some point. And there we go, and the rest is history. That&#8217;s now all I&#8217;ve done for many years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:07] <strong>John Overall:</strong> Well I will gladly take the credit for expanding podcasting. I&#8217;ve enjoyed podcasting since the beginning. I discovered it as I graduated from my applied communication program at college, which led me into the internet. And it was shortly after that that we saw the rise of it. And of course, Adam Curry from the No Agenda Show, who is known as the Pod Father, he created podcasting as it stands today with the RSS feeds.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And he&#8217;s even ensured that it&#8217;s going to stay a free and open source platform due to the now existing podcasting index. Which is where everybody gets that in their newfangled apps. Like I quit using the apps from the Apple store for my podcast. I use the newer apps, because they do a much better job and they go into the podcast and index for everything.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, yeah, it&#8217;s really great. And the nice thing is, what it did was allowed me, with WordPress in particular, was to expand my knowledge. Because I used it to build my knowledge. I saw WordPress and what it was doing with the plugins. Because in the beginning, WordPress was great for a blogging platform. I started using it probably about version two, so they were like two, maybe two and a half years old when I discovered WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;d seen it once before when it first came out, and one of my clients put it on my server and I almost banned it from my server because its use of resources was ridiculous. It was literally crashing one of my servers. But I ended up working with it, and it kept getting better and better and better. And then when they introduced the plugins to it, to expand it into a full CMS, I went, oh dear God, this is going to be huge.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I&#8217;ve watched it as it climbed from like, I went back recently to look at my first episodes. My first episode there was less than 9,000 plugins available for WordPress. I watched it grow and grow and grow and grow. And now there&#8217;s over, hundreds of thousands of plugins. The WordPress repository has only 50,000. At one point they had 90,000, so they&#8217;ve cleaned out a big mess, it has expanded it, and it&#8217;s going to take, you know, WordPress is going into, it&#8217;s in a changing mode right now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress is in a massive flux right now, with all the things that have occurred in the last six months. But many people have been panicking, oh my God, It&#8217;s going to go away. It&#8217;s like, no, it&#8217;s not going anywhere. It&#8217;s going to change, and a lot of things are going to be different, but there&#8217;s too many people in the world making a living, depending upon their daily bread, their monthly rents, having WordPress fully functioning. And there&#8217;s companies that are as big as Automattic, if not bigger, that are using WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I was reading an article yesterday of the top 12 websites built in WordPress. We&#8217;re talking NASA, The Times magazine, well, we know whitehouse.gov is using it. And you look at them and some of them are just insanely developed. And if it wasn&#8217;t for the plugin capability of WordPress, it wouldn&#8217;t be possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:52] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> When you look back over all those years, so rewind until, let&#8217;s say the month, the year before you began your podcast journey, what was the thing that kicked you into doing podcasting? Was it just like a bit of serendipity? Did you know that you wanted to create audio content or was it just a bit of an accident?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:09] <strong>John Overall:</strong> It was a bit of everything. What it really was, was I was just starting, I had just sold my computer store, so I was working off of money from selling a successful sale of a computer store I had for several years. Because I sold out the computer industry just before it went full mobile and impossible to really make a living with a computer store. And I was going back to the internet and developing websites and I was exploring things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I looked at Drupal, Joomla and WordPress, trying to figure out what would be the best CMS system so I wouldn&#8217;t have to write PHP code, and CSS by hand anymore, or at least minimise it. And I needed a way to reach people. And one of the ways, podcasts was just starting to pick up at that time, that was somewhere around 2010, 2011, right around there. And it was just starting to pick up, and I realised, wait a minute, people are listening to the podcast. I can start putting out a podcast and I can focus. And I looked at WordPress and I realised, you know, what would be the best component to focus on in WordPress?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so I chose plugins. And I went, okay, well I needed a domain. I went, WP Plugins, well, A to Z. And I had this really crazy idea at the beginning, because there was so few plugins, I was going to cover WordPress plugins, literally from A to Z. My first 20 episodes was A, B, C, D plugins starting with those letters. I got that far into it and I went, okay, this ain&#8217;t going to work, there&#8217;s no way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And people were adding them at a continuous rate every week. And I went, okay, this isn&#8217;t going to work, but it still constitutes, the name constituted everything. So I just started diving into what I thought was the best plugins, or if I used the plugin and I thought wasn&#8217;t very good, it was a way to warn people, please, avoid this plugin. Don&#8217;t make my mistake.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it was all of those things. So it was a little bit of serendipity, but what I was more after was growing my business. And it literally did grow my business for several years. I would suddenly get a call, or an email from people, because I put my email and everything into the shows. I would get emails from listeners saying, hey, I&#8217;ve been listening to your show for several months and I&#8217;m having this WordPress problem, and you talked about it. Can you fix it? And I said, well, hold on, let&#8217;s see what we can do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so I still have six or seven clients from those early years, that have been clients ever since they came to me. And they came to me because, when people listen to you on podcasts they begin to trust you. They start to feel like they know who you are, because they&#8217;ve been listening to you. You&#8217;re a friend, you&#8217;re not a stranger. And because of that, what happens, I had people, they would contact me and I asked them for, I&#8217;m really cautious about what information I get from my clients to access their stuff, their hosting or whatever. And I get people and I ask them for this, and all of a sudden they&#8217;ve given me all of their keys to their castle. And they have no idea who I am. They don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;m trustworthy of that, but I&#8217;ve built that trust by the way they&#8217;ve heard me talk over the however period of time, months or years they&#8217;ve listened to my show.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:55] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It is interesting because from your perspective, you haven&#8217;t given out any metric which might be a measure of trust, but you have. You really have. I mean, giving that much time and putting out your thoughts, and speaking like you speak, and talking like you talk, and the language that you use, and the way that you present yourself, it does lend trust.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it is very, very similar with the podcasts that I listen to, dozens that I listen to each week. And I really do get a feeling that I know these people. I never thought of using a podcast as a marketing tool to be honest. But I do remember the sort of bits that you would drop in, and I thought, yeah, that was kind of interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, perfect, it ended up creating new business, not just a bit of fun that you had to crowbar into each week.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:38] <strong>John Overall:</strong> It literally helped build my business, and it made it successful to sustain me for many years. And that&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve enjoyed. That&#8217;s part of what I&#8217;ve enjoyed about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The other is, I got to meet lots of people virtually, all over the globe. In addition to the, well, we&#8217;re going to do episode 642 next week, and in addition to those episodes for just the WP plugins, I did interview shows, which were a separate episode. And I&#8217;ve done over 150 of those over the years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Plus I&#8217;ve also had three or four other podcasts, I kept thinking I was going to start different podcasts for different things, and I&#8217;d get maybe 20, 30, 100, 200 episodes into them, and then that&#8217;s like, okay, I don&#8217;t have time for these ones anymore, and they just fall by the wayside. In total I&#8217;ve probably got 2000 episodes of podcasts behind me for various podcasts.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You really are a veteran of this industry. How has it changed? Just for those of us who are podcasting nowadays, it&#8217;s so simple. There&#8217;s a tool for everything. There&#8217;s a SaaS platform for everything. You can pay your monthly subscription, and it&#8217;ll more or less podcast for you really. But back in the day, when I started there were definite hurdles, but you were many, many years before me. So I&#8217;m imagining there was lots of hurdles to overcome just to get the thing out there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:49] <strong>John Overall:</strong> In the beginning it was really hard, especially if you had a host, a co-host. It&#8217;s like we didn&#8217;t have the easy software like we&#8217;re using right now for recording back and forth. Even now, I don&#8217;t use this software for doing mine. I use Microsoft Teams for recording with my co-host. But in the beginning we had, oh, what the heck was it called?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;ll tell you what I used at the beginning and this will kind of date me. I used Skype.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:13] <strong>John Overall:</strong> That&#8217;s it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:13] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That was it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:14] <strong>John Overall:</strong> That was it? Skype? I was trying to remember what it was. It still loads on my computer when I reboot my computer and I have to shut it off because I just haven&#8217;t got around to, well, I haven&#8217;t rebuilt my computer for almost 10 years. I&#8217;m getting a new one this next year, because my computer&#8217;s finally ending its life.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But yeah, Skype. And the other thing was, is we didn&#8217;t have the easy ways to clean up the audio feed that we have now. You get those high pitch wines, or bad cable, or background noise, or whatever, or even the mismatched audio levels. You had to actually go in and kind of edit that a little bit to get your audio as clean as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because the biggest thing from the beginning I knew is, it doesn&#8217;t really matter what you&#8217;re talking about, if the audio&#8217;s not clean, people will stop listening. If the audio&#8217;s got annoying noises or something, or they can&#8217;t quite hear, or one host is suddenly blaring in the air and the other host is like a mouse talking in the other ear, they go, oh, I can&#8217;t listen to this. And they won&#8217;t listen to you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you know, it&#8217;s really interesting because somebody warned me of this right at the beginning of my podcast journey, and they framed it even more than that. They said that if you&#8217;re watching a video and the quality of the video is poor, you&#8217;ll forgive that. But you&#8217;ll never forgive bad audio. You just can&#8217;t watch something on, let&#8217;s say, YouTube or a film or whatever if the audio is crackly or distorted. There&#8217;s just nothing, you know, unless you can lip read, there&#8217;s nothing coming at you that&#8217;s useful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I remember taking that to heart and thinking, okay, that&#8217;s important. But then being frustrated by the technology that, just things like Skype couldn&#8217;t keep up. There&#8217;d be dropouts in everything, and so editing was a nightmare.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:48] <strong>John Overall:</strong> Yes, it was. And although pretty much all my shows are live to tape, I discovered a program that&#8217;s called Level Later. And it&#8217;s a very old program, but what it does is you can take any audio file with multiple levels in it, you throw it into this, it runs it through some passes, some computer magic, and it comes out and all the levels are perfect in it. And I&#8217;ve been using Level Later for years now, because no matter how hard I try, I can never get the levels perfect when I&#8217;m recording it between two hosts. Because I&#8217;m not using intermediate software that&#8217;s doing it for me. I record mine straight to OBS.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, if you are thinking about getting into the podcasting world, and we can decide whether or not that&#8217;s useful these days given the dearth of podcasts. But if you are, honestly, it&#8217;s so straightforward now. I&#8217;m using, currently, an app called SquadCast, but there&#8217;s a whole bunch of rivals out there in the marketplace. There&#8217;s things like Riverside.FM and many, many others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And they allow you to record through a browser, and in this case, John&#8217;s track and my track will be isolated, I&#8217;ll download them both. And so that never happened. Before it was just one track that you had to, if your audio is mucky, then so was mine. There was no way of separating those two.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But now yours will come separately, mine will come separately, and if I&#8217;ve got 10 guests, they&#8217;ll all be separate. And then I throw them into, similar to you, I throw them into an app which basically cleans things up and automatically levels things. And then will create transcripts, and it&#8217;s just miraculous. It&#8217;s so, so straightforward.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:13] <strong>John Overall:</strong> It&#8217;s gotten really good. I&#8217;m, re-embracing all of that stuff. For the last four years, I&#8217;d taken my business down to the minimal levels of what I had to put into it, and I focused on my farmstead that I have, my urban farmstead. And in this last year I realised I needed to get back to my roots, and my WordPress and all of my other work. And so this last year we&#8217;ve been rebuilding everything.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the WP Plugin show, it went off the rails for a little while. I got a little political for a little while and lost a large chunk of my audience, and a lot of them are coming back now because I&#8217;ve got it back to what it was, the show it was before. It is allowing everything, and also I&#8217;ve got a new co-host in there, my daughter, been training in my business for the last five years to take over this business as I get ready for retirement time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>She&#8217;s become my co-host on there. In fact, she&#8217;s more of the host than I am now. She does more of the talking and more of the direction of the show each week. Which is kind of interesting. It makes for a more interesting show, having a different viewpoint on it than mine. Because I think I went, when Marcus left the show back in 2016 or 17, and I did like four years of just me on the show. And it&#8217;s really hard to be a single host on a show week after week after week.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I feel your pain.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:28] <strong>John Overall:</strong> That&#8217;s why you need guests or you need to have a co-host to help keep some life in it. Anyone who tries to do a podcast, like podcasts nowadays. Yeah, anyone can do them and, yes, there is a dearth of them, but the problem is, if you go look at those podcasts, about 80% of them never make it past episode 30.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Or even, I mean, it&#8217;s probably like 50% past episode one in all honesty.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:50] <strong>John Overall:</strong> Yeah that too. They find out, wait a minute, this is a lot of work, and it&#8217;s really hard. It&#8217;s usually the ones that try to do it by themselves and they&#8217;ve got the momentum for the first 10, 15 episodes. After that, you&#8217;ve got to keep pushing yourself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:02] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, there&#8217;s a grind, isn&#8217;t there? And although we&#8217;ve just made the case that making a podcast is straightforward, from a technological point of view, it&#8217;s easier than ever. But the grind hasn&#8217;t gone away. And in fact, new grind has been added in.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So when you began, and when I began, social media was a bit of a thing, but not really. It wasn&#8217;t kind of an essential component. But now it&#8217;s almost like the only distribution mechanism, outside of RSS, and perhaps a WordPress website.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>All of those pieces have kind of got bundled in. So you have to make sure to promote it, and cross-promote it, and create, I don&#8217;t know, alternative, different snippets of it that go on this platform and that platform. So there&#8217;s a whole load of other things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It isn&#8217;t something that, unless you&#8217;ve got a real passion for it, it&#8217;s something that, like you said, episode 30 is probably going to be where you get and give in because you start in New Year, brand new, New Year&#8217;s resolution. January, I&#8217;m going to do a podcast, and you keep going for a little while. And I was telling you that there are very few things in my life where I&#8217;ve had the capacity to stick at it, but podcasting for some reason has worked for me. I guess I just like listening to my own voice.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:05] <strong>John Overall:</strong> There&#8217;s that aspect too, listening to your own voice. Sometimes I listen to myself and I go, really? That&#8217;s me? You don&#8217;t get used to that. No matter all these years, I still can&#8217;t get used to my voice.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the other thing is, for some people, a lot of people use it to help improve their knowledge in their particular area they&#8217;re podcasting about.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I like history podcasts from time to time. And those ones there, it means it&#8217;s a serious history buff doing a podcast about something he&#8217;s excited about. And what he&#8217;s getting a chance to do is share to the world what he&#8217;s doing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The same I do with WordPress, I share things to everybody about what is in the WordPress world and what&#8217;s changing. And now our show has moved in a different direction. We dropped down from the number of plugins we do each week. We have more discussion about things we see happening. There&#8217;s new segments coming into the show that&#8217;ll be talking about, here&#8217;s a problem in WordPress we found, how we solved it, coming from my daughter&#8217;s perspective, who, she&#8217;s five years into this, so she&#8217;s relatively new and everything. It&#8217;s like everything&#8217;s brand new to her. A lot of it&#8217;s all, oh yeah, it&#8217;s just CSS. I don&#8217;t understand that Dad. And I was like, oh yeah, you&#8217;re kind of new at this. I have to explain things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So when I&#8217;ve discovered problems, there&#8217;s problems I can solve in like 20 minutes and it takes her five hours because she doesn&#8217;t know where to go to see the problem. These are what I&#8217;m starting to bring back to the show. Stuff that used to be in the show and it had gotten lost along the way. And it&#8217;s also we&#8217;re talking about what we see changing in the WordPress environment, and how we see this environment evolving over the next couple years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We did a show, our Christmas and New Year&#8217;s shows were prerecorded. We do prerecorded shows usually about that time, so we can spend time with the family and not worry about the show. But we&#8217;d made predictions of what was coming in the New Year that hadn&#8217;t yet come to pass. By the time we did our first show, a week and a half ago, by the time we did our first show for the New Year, we had already had two or three successful predictions of what was changing in WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;re both starting to see this, which is exciting in the fact that, oh, okay, this sort of event is going to happen in WordPress and this is where it&#8217;s going to go. With all the doom and gloom, as I mentioned, the doom and gloom as I see, like I follow the forums over at the Reddits, and Twitters, and all over the place because I get our news from everywhere to keep up. And I see a lot of people, doom and gloom of people abandoning.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I tried abandoning WordPress at the introduction of Gutenberg. I even took my show towards ClassicPress. And that happened for about two years. And then I realised, unfortunately, ClassicPress didn&#8217;t have a community momentum behind it, and WordPress kept going. Even though I currently build in WordPress, I don&#8217;t use Gutenberg, because no matter how many times I try to wrap my head around it, I can&#8217;t get my brain to think that way. And so I use Elementor for all my builds. And it allows me to continue using the Classic Editor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But that sort of thing is going to continue. They were going to supposedly stop supporting the Classic Editor, but unfortunately it&#8217;s not happening, because a good 50% of the WordPress community still uses the Classic Editor, and a page builder of some sort. Versus 50% that are using Gutenberg. And they can live together. It took me a while to realise that they can live together. You just have to work with it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I have a couple of clients who use Gutenberg. I can sort of muck my way through it if I really work at it. But it&#8217;s going to continue, and these things are going to keep changing and evolving. The WordPress plugins, I&#8217;ve seen the developers creating some amazing developments. When we just launched the new website for our business, we actually have a whole WP Pro A to Z lineup, WP Plugins, WP Pro A to Z.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>When we launched our new site, I found a plugin I didn&#8217;t know existed, which will be coming in one of my shows, upcoming. If you need a booking plugin and you use Gravity Forms, somebody wrote a full blown addition to Gravity Forms for a booking plugin. So you don&#8217;t have to go spend money on another third party service or a service as a software, SaaS service where you&#8217;re putting out money. You pay for this one plugin, integrate it into Gravity Forms and you get everything. And now it&#8217;s all in one form and you still control your data.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:07] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I really like the idea that you had of having that kind of theme running through, because in any of the podcasts I do, basically each episode is atomised, you know, it&#8217;s just an episode and then you listen to a different one, and there&#8217;s no real connection necessarily between the episodes. And I really like the idea of having a thread which runs through.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But also, I am really curious about plugins in particular, and I would love to have the excuse to play with them. Because then it would be, air quotes, then it would be work suddenly. The excuse of, what are you doing? I&#8217;m doing work. I&#8217;m playing with a plugin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:39] <strong>John Overall:</strong> Play with a plugin, figuring it out, throw it on one of my dozens of domains that I&#8217;m doing nothing with, that collect all kinds of stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>No, the other joy is, as you mentioned with plugins, is of course, because once developers rediscover us, and the way we review stuff, and we give honest reviews, we tell them, truthfully what we find wrong and what we don&#8217;t. We give a good, honest rating. It&#8217;s very seldom we&#8217;ll give a rating as low as a two, but it has happened in the past.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We don&#8217;t automatically like give it a five, it has to be worthy of a five. Most of them fall between three and four, which is where most of them are anyway.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the other joy is, is I get developers, they got a premium plugin and they go, hey, you want to check it out and I say, yeah, give me your premium plugin and a license, all give it a review.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I get to play with premium plugins without having to spend the money on them, which is a joy. But it also allows people to find out what it might do. And the other thing that&#8217;s coming again, I used to have training videos, create training videos on how to use plugins. In fact, my training videos on my YouTube channel, some of them are still some of my highest rated plugins.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I feel that I was really lucky being in the WordPress community, then discovering podcasting. Because I feel like all the pieces of the jigsaw, which go into making a podcast, are easily handled with WordPress. And so that was just a nice bit of serendipity. If you understand how to put a website up, well, that&#8217;s one thing you kind of really do need if you&#8217;re going to have a podcast.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And there&#8217;s plugins which will handle the RSS feed. There&#8217;s plugins which will handle the contact forms. There&#8217;s plugins which will handle the display of your website if you&#8217;re not using Core. And so I felt that talking about WordPress, and having the capacity to use WordPress was a real boon for me. Just made the whole thing much more straightforward. But like you&#8217;re describing about your daughter, not the same for everybody.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:21] <strong>John Overall:</strong> Yeah, well, one of the interesting things about, when you mentioned a plugin for this and a plugin for that, you remember the early days of the Apple advertising, There&#8217;s an app for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:29] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> For the iPhone, yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:30] <strong>John Overall:</strong> We used to say for the longest time, well, there&#8217;s a plugin for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. And there was.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:34] <strong>John Overall:</strong> There literally was, and there still is. And if you don&#8217;t think there is, it&#8217;s easy enough to build. It&#8217;s like, I&#8217;ve actually gone so far, in the last couple of years, to pay developers to create plugins for me. Sometime around the end of this year we&#8217;ll be introducing a plugin that has not been created yet for any of the things on WordPress. We&#8217;ve been working on something, and so that&#8217;s a little tidbit of what&#8217;s coming. As we get closer to the beta release, which is expected, the beta release is expected September, October of this year. Then we&#8217;ll be talking more and more in depth about this plugin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:07] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you still intend to keep going with your podcast into the, basically into the future, forever? Do you have a sort of timeline, like when you get to, I don&#8217;t know, a thousand episodes of this particular podcast, that&#8217;ll be it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:18] <strong>John Overall:</strong> As long as the show has still got listeners, and some audience, and it still provides value for what we do, no. Because one of the biggest things, and even my daughters realised this. Because she has to do research for every episode, because a lot of people don&#8217;t realizse, okay, you do a podcast, oh, it&#8217;s about an hour long. They don&#8217;t realise that that hour long required three to four hours of research in preparation of your notes and everything for the show, plus whatever post-production, everything else. By the time you&#8217;re done, a one hour show is usually a five to seven hour investment of time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The thing is, when you&#8217;re doing that research, what it does is that increases your knowledge, because you&#8217;re looking at things you hadn&#8217;t looked at before, and it helps increase and input more knowledge into you, and expand your knowledge as an expert in the field. Many, many people started podcasts as a side hobby, and turned into experts in their field, because of their podcast. That&#8217;s what it forces you to do, is it forces you to become an expert in whatever field your podcast focuses on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Did you ever get into creating podcast websites for people?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:22] <strong>John Overall:</strong> No.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> No, me neither. And there&#8217;s some part of me which regrets that, because I think that would&#8217;ve been a real good wheelhouse for me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:28] <strong>John Overall:</strong> It would&#8217;ve been, and it would&#8217;ve been except for, you would&#8217;ve been changing a lot, and the investment in time and the screenshots for it would be even higher than the investment in time I&#8217;ve got now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It was all about how much investment in time versus the return on that investment in time. It is how I&#8217;ve done it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I did training videos, and my training videos are still some of the highest viewed videos on YouTube, and they&#8217;re old and ancient now, and they&#8217;re out of date. And I even got a question from one of the training videos, what was it, a couple of months ago, somebody contacted me and asked me questions. I said, oh, dear God, I forgot I did that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And when I went and looked at it, I said, I&#8217;m sorry, it&#8217;s out of date. I haven&#8217;t used that plugin in four or five years now, so I don&#8217;t know. And this is the problem of it. And so I&#8217;m starting to create new ones, partly because I&#8217;m creating these training videos for my clients to be able to manage their sites. Because my job as a web designer is not to manage their website forever, but build them a website that they can do all their own content and not keep having me having to put the content in, because they don&#8217;t want to pay the fees for simple things like adding content.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so we build websites to do that, but they need instructions on how to do it. So we build nice, simple training videos that they can go look at and remind themselves how to do it. And so I&#8217;m actually starting to do that with the plugins again. And for plugins, in fact, one of my training videos for a plugin I did a few years ago, the plugin developer adopted that video right into their code as their training video for how to use the plugin. I do do very detailed, and something people told me was, I&#8217;m very good at translating geek to English.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that was the nice thing is, if you try to tell them how to do it in geek, and a lot of computer guys, they can&#8217;t translate geek to English.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Also you have this strange thing on an audio podcast where in many cases you&#8217;re trying to describe the functionality of something, which would be so much easier if you could just see it. So it does this, and the way it does this, oh, okay, and you have to try and explain it. And sometimes that involves saying, well, you have to tick this box over here, and then go over here, and do this, and this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it really does make you stop and think, what&#8217;s the best way to describe this? What&#8217;s going to work? What&#8217;s not going to work? And I think you&#8217;re right, it does make you think around the problem. They say that if you can teach something, then you truly understand it. I think there&#8217;s a little bit of that in there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:42] <strong>John Overall:</strong> That was the other thing I did in the beginning of WordPress. I actually taught WordPress. I had courses here in Victoria where I live. I had night classes that people would sign up and come pay me money to teach them how to use WordPress. And I did those for about, all the way up until version four of WordPress when YouTube got flooded with tutorials and my courses became irrelevant. But for a few years, that was another way I expanded my knowledge was I taught it to people, because in preparation to teach it, I had to know what I was telling people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:10] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You mentioned that there was a period of time where you fell out with podcasting or it fell out with you, or whatever it may be. You sort of dropped away from it. Did you find though, that when you came back, you mentioned that the audience is sort of still there? The curious thing for me is, I noticed this just the other day, a podcast that is in my podcast player that I have never listened to for years, and the reason I haven&#8217;t listened is because they just went away, but it&#8217;s still there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then they came back. RSS is a bit brilliant like that. Because there&#8217;s no algorithm feeding it to you, there&#8217;s no algorithm like on YouTube saying, okay, now what about this. It jumped right to the top of my playlist. And I suddenly thought, gosh, I haven&#8217;t seen that one for a while. Click play, and the first words were, we&#8217;re back, we&#8217;ve had a couple of years off or whatever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I thought that was really cool. So I did wonder if your audience, by just mere fact of the way RSS readers work, and RSS feeds work with podcast players, if they&#8217;d stock with you, even though they didn&#8217;t know they were sticking with you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:05] <strong>John Overall:</strong> I&#8217;d say about one third of my audience, in truth, I never left it entirely. We would always put out a episode of WP Plugins A to Z. We would put out an episode, at worst it fell to an episode a month is what happened. It was never completely off the air. But the audience dropped down to, we&#8217;re about one third right now the audience we used to have.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And a lot of them left me during my period of despair with the world, is lack of a better term. A lot of them left me during that period there. I chased a few of them away. Some of them I will earn back, some of them I won&#8217;t. Some of them have retired, I imagine, because what was interesting is my audience for the most part is as old or almost as old as me. And I&#8217;m pushing, you know, the upper echelons of fifties now. Because I&#8217;ve been doing this since my early forties. And some people, they&#8217;ve aged out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;re actually, because my daughter is a millennial, she&#8217;s in her thirties now, we&#8217;re going after the people in her audience segment. We&#8217;re changing our audience focus. We&#8217;re no longer worried about the old time geeks, the ones that know what they&#8217;re doing. We want the younger people who don&#8217;t know where they&#8217;re going, what they&#8217;re doing, they&#8217;re looking for advice, they want to do these things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;re working the audience to go after the younger generation, the millennials and the Zoomers, who are just now coming up into, okay, I need to build a business. What do I choose for building my website? Do I go with WordPress? Do I go with Shopify? Do I get Wix? Do I go crazy and go on a Drupal website? You know, it&#8217;s like, what are they going to do?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so we&#8217;re hoping that we can find these people that are hunting, and get them to look to us for the expertise and advice, and come see me. Like, I now have 25, actually 26 years now of experience in this industry. So I&#8217;ve just started offering consulting services for building a website. Because a lot of people don&#8217;t realise it&#8217;s like, you can dive into your website and you can spend, what&#8217;s your time worth? Is your time worth money, or is it not as valuable?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you can spend the next 70, 80 hours trying to figure things out. Or do you want to buy a few hours of my time and get some direction, and save yourself hours and hours of time, and know where you&#8217;re going with your website. Like, we&#8217;ve been fortunate enough to, in the last couple of years, build some very high frontend websites such as we rebuilt the website for the sierraclub.bc.ca, here in Western Canada.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we&#8217;ve had a few high-end websites like that we&#8217;ve built the last couple of years, to be able to showcase the kind of work and capabilities we have now. So it helps show that, yes, we have expertise in this. And I&#8217;m just going back and tying into all my years of knowledge now and bringing it back forward.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:44] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think that&#8217;s a really credible thing to be able to show as well. You know, I&#8217;ve been doing a podcast for 15 odd years or something, it&#8217;s definitely a lot of credibility. But also I think it&#8217;s great that you&#8217;ve managed to sort of co-opt your daughter into it. So not only has that breathed a whole new generation of an audience into the podcast, but it&#8217;s also binding you to a family member, a close family member, and I think that&#8217;s lovely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:05] <strong>John Overall:</strong> Yeah, well, I&#8217;m also trying to co-op my granddaughters into it too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Really a different generation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:10] <strong>John Overall:</strong> Neither one of my sons are much interested in technology, they&#8217;re so, so. But my oldest son&#8217;s become an electrician. My youngest son is looking at possibly going into trades as a welder. But my oldest son definitely is being an electrician, he starts as an apprentice as soon as he graduates.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it&#8217;s really good to bring in your next generations. If you have them, bring them in. If they&#8217;re excited in any way, find which component of your business they might be excited in, and put them into it. That&#8217;s one less person you have to worry about. And you can help ensure that maybe your business will last a couple of generations.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:43] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Well, Jonathan, unfortunately time has got the better of us. I really appreciate all of the content that you&#8217;ve put out there. I hope that it carries on and you&#8217;ll be able to make the new show with your daughter a real success. Where do people find you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:55] <strong>John Overall:</strong> You can find us online at two places, WP Plugins, A to Z, or Z for the Americans .com. And that&#8217;s where the show is hosted at. And all of our show notes are there. And you can also find us at wpproatoz.com. That&#8217;s our company website.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I will definitely put all of those links into the show notes. Jonathan Overall, thank you so much for chatting to me today. I really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:19] <strong>John Overall:</strong> Thanks a lot, Nathan. It&#8217;s been a pleasure.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://wppluginsatoz.com/\">John Overall</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>John is a veteran in the WordPress podcasting world, bringing over 16 years of experience with the WP Plugins A to Z show. He&#8217;s an early adopter of WordPress, and has seen the platform evolve and grow, and has built a wealth of knowledge around plugins, which he thinks have been pivotal to WordPress&#8217;s versatility.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>John shares his journey into the world of podcasting, initially using it as a tool to grow his business, and expand his expertise within the WordPress ecosystem. He gets into how the podcast landscape has shifted from its early days to the present, with technological advances making it easier than ever to produce and distribute shows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We talk about the evolution of WordPress plugins, how they have shaped the WordPress platform over the years, and John&#8217;s unique approach to managing and understanding these powerful tools, making a podcast to help him better understand what each plugin does.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>John also shares stories about his interactions with his audience, and how the podcast has forged connections that might not be the norm for client relationships.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We move onto the ever-changing WordPress environment, and John shares predictions and insights about the platform&#8217;s future, and how he’s using podcasting as a medium to continually learn and adapt, which in turn benefits his audience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Something new for John is how he’s involving his family in his podcasting journey. His daughter has breathed new life, and perspectives, into the show, hoping to appeal to a younger generation while retaining his loyal audience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you’re passionate about WordPress, podcasting, or just interested in understanding a holistic approach to long-term content creation and audience engagement, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wppluginsatoz.com/\">WP Plugins AtoZ website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://squadcast.fm/\"> SquadCast</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://riverside.fm/\"> Riverside.FM</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.classicpress.net/\">ClassicPress</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://elementor.com/\">Elementor</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wpproatoz.com/\">WP Pro A to Z website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.gravityforms.com/\">Gravity Forms</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://sierraclub.bc.ca/\">Sierra Club BC website</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 26 Feb 2025 15:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:30;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:114:\"Do The Woo Community: From Design to Deployment: Why Figma and Design Systems Are Essential for WordPress Projects\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=90664\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:117:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/from-design-to-deployment-why-figma-and-design-systems-are-essential-for-wordpress-projects/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:227:\"Using Figma and design systems streamlines WordPress workflows, ensuring precision, consistency, and efficiency. Learn how structured design approaches empower developers and designers to create scalable, high-quality websites.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 26 Feb 2025 10:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"Ash Shaw\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:31;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:83:\"Do The Woo Community: Insights and Innovations in WooCommerce: Embracing the Future\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=89390\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:86:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/insights-and-innovations-in-woocommerce-embracing-the-future/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:167:\"Learn about WooCommerce\'s growth through community engagement, builder tools, core features, and the \"default to public\" philosophy for transparency and collaboration.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:44:50 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:32;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:58:\"WordPress.org blog: Shaping Tomorrow at WordCamp Asia 2025\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=18515\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2025/02/shaping-tomorrow-at-wordcamp-asia-2025/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14756:\"<img width=\"1024\" height=\"512\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250222-WCAsia-02-21-PM_1280x640-1-scaled-1.jpg?resize=1024%2C512&ssl=1\" alt=\"WordCamp Asia 2025 attendees gathered for a group photo\" class=\"wp-image-18521\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Over 1,400 attendees from 71 countries gathered at the Philippine International Convention Center in Manila, and nearly 15,000 more joined online, for WordCamp Asia 2025.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-1 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<blockquote><p>It&#8217;s the people. It&#8217;s the friendships and the stories.</p><cite>Matt Mullenweg, WordPress Cofounder</cite></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>The flagship WordPress event started with a dedicated Contributor Day, followed by two days of engaging talks, panels, hands-on workshops, and networking. Notable guests included WordPress Cofounder <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matt/\">Matt Mullenweg</a> and Gutenberg Lead Architect <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matveb/\">Matías Ventura</a>, who were joined by a diverse lineup of speakers and panelists.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Throughout the event, the sponsor hall buzzed with activity as companies from across the WordPress ecosystem showcased their latest products, engaged with attendees, and offered live demos and giveaways.&nbsp;Each day, attendees refueled with diverse food offerings featuring Filipino favorites, turning meals into a prime networking opportunity where new connections were made and ideas were exchanged.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">New Ways to Engage</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>This year’s event introduced several new programs to the schedule:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Solutions Spotlight</strong>—a series of dynamic 10-minute lightning talks that gave an inside look at innovative products, cutting-edge strategies, and real-world solutions from top-tier sponsors, all designed to help attendees succeed in the WordPress ecosystem. These fast-paced sessions offered a unique opportunity to discover how leading brands are solving challenges, empowering users, and shaping the future of WordPress.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>YouthCamp</strong>, a dedicated event for kids and teens ages 8-17, offered a full day of free, hands-on sessions designed to spark creativity and introduce the world of WordPress and open source. Through interactive workshops covering web basics, design, and development, participants gained practical skills while exploring the power of building online.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>The new <strong>Career and Social Corners</strong> enhanced networking, fostered meaningful connections, and created new opportunities for those within the WordPress community. Career Corner was the go-to space for attendees exploring career opportunities, connecting with sponsors, and discovering exciting new roles. Meanwhile, Social Corner offered a relaxed, lounge-style environment where attendees could engage in informal discussions over refreshments.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Contributor Day</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>WordCamp Asia kicked off with an incredible Contributor Day, bringing together almost 800 contributors, many of them new, to collaborate, share knowledge, and give back to WordPress. With 37 dedicated table leads and 16 experts from the Human Library guiding the way, participants of all experience levels engaged in meaningful discussions, tackled important tasks, and made a lasting impact on the WordPress project.</p>\n\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1834.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18526\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1914.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18537\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1989.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18527\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1926.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18524\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1920.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18530\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1963.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18525\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/WORDCAMPASIA2025_PH_PICC_DAY01_CONTRIBUTORSDAY_JOHN_CARLO_PATTAGUAN-474.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18616\" />\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"768\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220_153813.jpg?resize=1024%2C768&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18614\" />\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"684\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/T2S_6305.jpg?resize=1024%2C684&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18615\" />\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1902.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18528\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1886.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18534\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1885.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18531\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC07465.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18536\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n\n<p>Key contributions included resolving a critical media bug, advancing vertical text editing in Gutenberg, and refining the editing experience with dozens of issue closures. Performance optimizations and accessibility improvements abounded, joined by seven fresh patterns, and over 44,000 newly translated strings.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>New tools and workflows were explored to enhance testing and development. The day also saw meaningful conversations between hosting providers and users, improvements to event organizing processes, and hands-on training.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>With innovative ideas, new faces, and significant progress across multiple areas, Contributor Day reinforced the spirit of open source collaboration that drives WordPress forward.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The Future is WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>On the first full conference day, attendees gathered to celebrate the power of open source collaboration and innovation. Opening remarks from global and local event leads reflected on the incredible journey of WordCamp Asia, tracing its roots back to the first Southeast Asian WordCamp in Manila in 2008. This full-circle moment underscored how the WordPress community has flourished over the years, driven by shared knowledge and a commitment to an open web. The excitement continued with a highly anticipated opening keynote from Matías Ventura, who shared insights into the future of Gutenberg and WordPress, inspiring attendees to embrace the next wave of innovation and creativity in content publishing.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>The day then began in earnest. Talks highlighted new ways to integrate WordPress with external applications, opening possibilities for more interactive and scalable digital experiences. Simultaneously, content strategists and marketers explored evolving best practices in SEO, learning how to optimize their sites for visibility, engagement, and long-term growth. These sessions emphasized the importance of adaptability in a constantly evolving digital landscape, ensuring that WordPress users stay ahead of industry trends.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Workshops throughout the day provided hands-on learning experiences tailored to a wide range of skill levels. Developers refined their expertise, gaining practical knowledge they could apply to their own projects. Accessibility advocates led discussions on designing for inclusivity, showcasing strategies to make WordPress-powered websites more navigable and user-friendly for people of all abilities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As the conference continued into the afternoon, conversations expanded to performance optimization and emerging technologies shaping the future of WordPress. A dedicated session explored AI-driven workflows, demonstrating how artificial intelligence can enhance site performance, automate repetitive tasks, and create more personalized user experiences. These discussions showcased the evolving role of WordPress as a versatile platform that extends beyond traditional publishing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The first day culminated in a thought-provoking keynote panel, WordPress in 2030, where industry leaders explored the future of the platform. The discussion covered the expanding open source community, emerging technologies, and the role of education and mentorship. Panelists shared their perspectives on the opportunities and challenges ahead, encouraging attendees to actively shape the future of WordPress by contributing, innovating, and advocating for an open web.</p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"442\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250222-CleanShot-2025-02-22-at-07.42.19%402x.jpg?resize=1024%2C442&ssl=1\" alt=\"Panelists Noel Tock, Hong Phuc Dang, Jon Ang, Courtney Robertson, and Raquel Manriquez discuss WordPress in 2030\" class=\"wp-image-18561\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Returning for the final day of WordCamp Asia 2025, attendees explored a new set of sessions designed to push the boundaries of web development and strategy. Technical discussions on advanced Gutenberg block development highlighted innovative ways to build more dynamic and interactive content experiences, while another session examined performance optimization strategies to enhance site speed, accessibility, and overall user engagement. Content creators and marketers gained valuable insights into audience growth, effective storytelling, and data-driven content strategies to maximize impact.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The final sessions of the conference reinforced WordPress’s adaptability and innovation, equipping attendees with new skills and strategies.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Q&amp;A</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>As the final day drew to a close, Matt shared historic photos from WordCamp Davao 2008 in the Philippines, and then answered questions from the audience.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>Questions covered a variety of topics, incluiding: publishing on the open web, AI, headless WordPress, education, and Matt’s personal motivations. It was clear throughout the Q&amp;A that the future of WordPress is as bright as the island-themed attire at the event’s after-party.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Closing</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Thank you to all the hard-working organizers who made this event possible, the speakers who took the stage, the visitors who ventured to Manila, and everyone who tuned in from around the world. Our hope is that every WordCamp attendee leaves with new knowledge, new friends, and new inspiration to build a better web.</p>\n\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1853.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18533\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"684\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250221-T2S_5388.jpg?resize=1024%2C684&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18547\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1877.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18535\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1800.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18523\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1861.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18532\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250220-DSC_1860.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18529\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250221-250221_12-35-12_N7A00461_NExT.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18545\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250221-DSC_2549.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18543\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"684\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250221-IMG_3709.jpg?resize=1024%2C684&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18546\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"768\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/20250222-b9848a28-a181-47dc-80af-4d2eb6a72756.jpg?resize=1024%2C768&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18540\" /><button class=\"lightbox-trigger\" type=\"button\">\n			\n				\n			\n		</button>\n\n\n\n\n<p>Be sure to mark your calendars for other major WordPress events in 2025: <a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2025/\">WordCamp Europe</a> (Basel, Switzerland) and<a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2025/\"> WordCamp US</a> (Portland, Oregon, USA). Then join us in Mumbai, India for WordCamp Asia 2026!</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 22 Feb 2025 15:04:04 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:17:\"Nicholas Garofalo\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:33;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:39:\"Matt: WordCamp Asia and Maha Kumbh Mela\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=138006\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://ma.tt/2025/02/wcasia-kumbh/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1434:\"<p>It&#8217;s been fantastic being in the Philippines for <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/\">this year&#8217;s WordCamp Asia</a>. We have attendees from 71 countries, over 1,800 tickets sold, and contributor day had over 700 people! It&#8217;s an interesting contrast to US and EU WordCamps as well in that the audience is definitely a lot younger, and there&#8217;s very little interest in &#8220;wpdrama&#8221; du jour, in fact I&#8217;ve had tons of amazing conversations of support and talking about the strength and growth of the community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some of the earliest international WordCamps I went to were in Manila and Davao, back in 2008. (I&#8217;m going to share some pictures at the start of my talk.) Between that and spending lots of time in Daly City when I moved to San Francisco when I was 20 I have developed a fondness for the cuisine, creativity, family orientation, and warmth of the culture here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>After this I&#8217;ll be taking a bit of time off for a trip to the big Hindu religious pilgrimage in India, the <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbh_Mela\">Maha Kumbh Mela</a>, which is currently on a 144 cycle. It&#8217;s the largest human gathering in the world, with some days measured with tens of millions of people visiting. I&#8217;ll be returning to my Photomatt roots as well and bringing my big camera rig, right now a Nikon Z 7II, and two lenses: 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 22 Feb 2025 06:01:19 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:34;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:47:\"Do The Woo Community: Do the Woo v5.0 Changelog\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=91258\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:51:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/do-the-woo-v5-0-changelog/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:61:\"Version 5.0 2025-02-20 You can see our entire changelog here.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:46:48 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:35;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"Do The Woo Community: Do the Woo v5.0 is in the Wild at WordCamp Asia 2025\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=91204\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:73:\"https://dothewoo.io/do-the-woo-v5-0-is-in-the-wild-at-wordcamp-asia-2025/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:354:\"In this episode, BobWP announces the launch of version 5.0 at WordCamp Asia, featuring a redesigned homepage that emphasizes multimedia content. The update introduces video, enhancing the existing audio format. He welcomes new host Cami MacNamara and encourages listeners to check out the changelog for further updates and visit their booth at the event.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 20 Feb 2025 00:05:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:59:\"Gravatar: New! Initials Avatars, Email Signatures, and More\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=2918\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2025/02/19/initials-avatars-email-signatures/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3769:\"<p>Your Gravatar is your globally recognized avatar, showing up on millions of sites across the web. In fact, we&#8217;re serving up <strong><em>30,000 avatar requests every second</em></strong> &#8211; that&#8217;s <strong><em>billions of avatars every week</em></strong>, helping put faces to names all over the internet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And today, we&#8217;re making Gravatar even better. </p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Initials Avatars: You Asked, We Delivered</h2>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"719\" height=\"404\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/image-edited.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2921\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Developers, this one&#8217;s for you. After years of requests (we heard you, we promise!), initials avatars are here. Now available through our <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/api/avatars/images/\">free Avatars service</a> and the Gravatar Enhanced plugin for WordPress, you can automatically generate professional-looking avatars using your users&#8217; initials. Even if they don&#8217;t have a Gravatar account.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>These new avatars automatically pull from the profile display name, creating initials with beautifully generated background and foreground colors. No display name? No problem &#8211; we&#8217;ll show a friendly emoji instead.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And while we were at it, we gave our default avatars a fresh wardrobe. The classic silhouette and logo avatars got a modern makeover that feels right at home in 2025.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Email Signatures That Pop</h2>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"2086\" height=\"970\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/cleanshot-2025-02-18-at-12.24.39402x.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"has-border-color has-contrast-border-color wp-image-2932\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Want to share your Gravatar profile in your emails? 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Each team member&#8217;s Gravatar profile automatically populates their bio section &#8211; no copy-pasting required.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And profiles automatically update when changes are made on Gravatar.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s Next?</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Keep an eye out for more updates as we continue making Gravatar the best way to represent yourself across the web.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And in case you missed last week&#8217;s update: <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2025/02/12/simplify-link-sharing-with-smart-redirects/\">custom domain smart redirects are now live</a>!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Want to try these features? Log in to your <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/profile\">Gravatar dashboard</a> or grab the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/gravatar-enhanced/\">Gravatar Enhanced</a> plugin for WordPress. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>PS: Developers, check out our updated <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/api/avatars/images/\">Avatar docs</a> for implementation details on initials avatars.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 19 Feb 2025 17:29:09 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:37;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:109:\"WPTavern: #157 – Katie Keith on the Move From Agency Owner to WordPress Theme Development to Plugin Success\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=187360\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:123:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/157-katie-keith-on-the-move-from-agency-owner-to-wordpress-theme-development-to-plugin-success\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:49017:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley. Jukebox is a podcast</p>\n\n\n\n<p>which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, the move from agency owner to WordPress theme development company, and finally to plugin success.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today we have Katie Keith.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie is a founder and CEO of Barn2 plugins. With a background deeply rooted in WordPress, Katie&#8217;s journey presents an interesting narrative of transformation, from the early days of running a WordPress agency, to now managing a flourishing plugin business Barn2 plugins has a portfolio of 19 premium plugins, many of which extend functionalities inside WooCommerce</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today, Katie previews her upcoming lightning talk, which she&#8217;ll be giving at WordCamp Asia. She talks about the transition from agency work to plugin development, highlighting early challenges and choices that shaped the business&#8217; path.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We get into the initial allure of client projects, and their subsequent realization of the benefits offered by productizing their skills for global reach. Katie describes the decisions that led them to WordPress plugins with products like WooCommerce Protected Categories and Document Library Pro, and explores how customer feedback and market needs drove their product diversification.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As Katie explains, the plugin world wasn&#8217;t without its hurdles. There was trial and error involved in launching new products. This underscores the importance of market research. Additionally, she touches on Barn2&#8217;s current pivot into Shopify apps, aiming for diversification to help ensure that the business has stability by being available across multiple platforms.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie investigates the current WordPress and WooCommerce landscape, discussing how she perceives the industry will change, potential growth areas, and the necessity of staying agile.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re curious about the intricacies of building a plugin business, or are seeking inspiration from someone who has already navigated the WordPress ecosystem, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well. And so, without further delay, I bring you Katie Keith.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast by Katie Keith.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:29] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Hey, Nathan.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:30] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Very nice to have you on the podcast. Katie and I have met, actually many times in person over at a variety of different WordCamps. This conversation that we&#8217;re going to have today is inspired by a WordCamp, but a WordCamp which hasn&#8217;t taken place yet. Because Katie is heading off to Manila in a few days time to give a lightning talk at WordCamp Asia. Do you just want to, before we get a bio properly, do you want to tell us what you&#8217;re going to talk about and then we&#8217;ll learn more about you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:52] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Yep. So my talk is going to be a lightning talk about my story, specifically the transition from being a WordPress agency into a WordPress plugin company.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:03] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Now that&#8217;s the perfect opportunity to give us your little bio. So don&#8217;t reveal all the detail of everything that you want to talk about, but just tell us the one minute potted history of you, WordPress, technology, wherever you want to land with that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:16] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Yeah, so I&#8217;m Katie Keith, founder and CEO at Barn2 plugins. We are a, as you probably guessed, a plugin shop. We currently have 19 premium plugins, a few free ones, and that&#8217;s about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But as we&#8217;ll talk about this more later, we started life as an agency building WordPress sites for clients, and then over the years we&#8217;ve switched into plugins.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We mostly specialise in WooCommerce plugins. So about 14 of our 19 are building extra functionality for WooCommerce. And we&#8217;ve also got a really popular document library plugin, which is not for WooCommerce.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:54] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Haven&#8217;t you pivoted a little bit in the direction of Shopify as well?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:57] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Yeah, that is in progress. So the current growth strategy is to continue what we&#8217;re doing with the WordPress side of things, and also to diversify into selling Shopify apps so that we are across multiple platforms, and largely as a sort of stability thing, so that we spread any risks. Because we&#8217;re all dependent on WordPress at the moment, which is obviously a good horse to back and always has been. But it feels like it&#8217;s a good idea to be on multiple platforms as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:26] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So I don&#8217;t know a single person, personally, who began their journey into web development intentionally. That is to say anybody of my era, anybody that wandered into web development when I did, the industry wasn&#8217;t really an industry. It was kind of just beginning. People just did it as a hobby. You know, some friend came along and said, I&#8217;d like a website, well, I can dabble with that. I&#8217;ve heard about websites and I know how to code a little bit of HTML and things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I&#8217;m wondering if you were more intentional when you began looking around post school, post college, whatever you did. Did you and your husband, I know he was a big part of the business. Did you jump into web development, and you said you were an agency for a while? Did you do that intentionally or was it more, oh, let&#8217;s try our hand at this for a bit?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:11] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> It actually was intentional. So, Andy and I spent our twenties with normal jobs, both government type jobs, talking about how we wanted to start a business together, and how much more flexible that would be. How much more our finances could scale if we worked for ourselves. But we just didn&#8217;t have any ideas.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we talked for years about different ideas and never really saw anything through or had a killer idea. Andy particularly got quite fed up with his job in the civil service in England and we thought, we need to do something. And thought, okay, well, what would combine our skills, and he was a software developer, not really web but software, and I was a project management and marketing person. And so we thought, well, building websites for people actually combines those skills.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He didn&#8217;t want to go into like software consultancy or something because we are from the southwest of England, which is quite rural, and we would probably have had to move to a big city. Remote work wasn&#8217;t such a thing back then, and so we didn&#8217;t really want that lifestyle change.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So he thought, well, maybe he could scale down a bit and learn web development instead of enterprise level software. And then that allows us to run a kind of more small business that we can live where we want to work. And websites need marketing, SEO, copywriting, project management, communication with clients. So that fitted in my skills as well. So, yes, it was intentional having analysed our respective skills and what we could realistically get into.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s really great actually. Looking back, you had the perfect blend of different things there. Maybe a bit of serendipity, but your marketing side, and Andy&#8217;s coding side, that is really the basis of a successful agency business, growing agency business. You need to have the capacity to code, but also to sell it into the marketplace. I mean, how many stories have you heard of people who can code but they can&#8217;t launch a business, because they don&#8217;t have the wherewithal to sell it and drum up business and things like that. So that&#8217;s fascinating.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In the show notes that we shared, one of the things that you said was that you didn&#8217;t quite go in the right direction at the beginning. Well, it turned out that you didn&#8217;t go in the right direction. You went with client websites, building one site, shipping it, launching another, and so on. But that didn&#8217;t turn out to be something that you wanted to maintain. Why was that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:30] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Yeah, so we thought client websites are a really good way to get started because you don&#8217;t need to invest lots of money, and you just get paid by the project. So if you can get one client that brings in, back then it was like £500 or something, not very much. And then you just keep going and grow slowly. I&#8217;d never really been attracted to the kind of business that you need to put a lot of money into upfront.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I love the program Dragons Den, which is Shark Tank in the US. But I&#8217;ve never wanted that kind of business where you need a lot of investment. So web design, just stick out a few flyers or something in your local, actually, fish and chip shop got us one client. We just put some flyers on the counter and we actually got a website for a local cycling club. Things like that. So you could start small.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it was a good way to get started. And it was really good because it got us into WordPress. So we didn&#8217;t initially think, let&#8217;s be WordPress specialists. We thought, let&#8217;s build websites. And then Andy started researching the right tools and discovered WordPress and told me about it. I thought it sounded like an awful idea, because he made it sound like a kind of a blogging thing and like, oh, you choose a template for your blog. And I was like, no, we want to build business websites for people. Why are you using this blogging software?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But that was about a year after custom post types came in, and it was becoming a proper platform. It was about 2010 back then. We started specialising in WordPress. And then, to answer your question, at this point, the client work was better than having jobs, but it wasn&#8217;t quite the lifestyle you wanted, in that we wanted more flexibility where we&#8217;re not like on call to clients all the time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If someone&#8217;s website goes down when you&#8217;re on holiday, you&#8217;ve got to fix it. And we did try to get help, project managers and things. And we did do well getting freelance designers and developers, but we just couldn&#8217;t find anybody that we could trust to communicate with the clients for us. And that really put a limitation on the lifestyle benefits because we were on, mainly me, we&#8217;re on call to clients all the time. So we thought, actually maybe that&#8217;s not the right business model.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You&#8217;re also selling your time for money, and going through that feast famine life cycle where one project is ongoing. And then at what point do you sort of cut that off and say, okay, we need to start looking for the next one, even though we haven&#8217;t quite finished this one. There&#8217;s inevitably going to be some overlap where that all just works out well. And obviously the agencies which grow and scale and become enterprise, they just have that figured somehow.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>My experience with that was always that there was a period where you were quite uncertain as to where the next website was going to come from. And you were, like I said, just trading your time for money. And WordPress offers so much more than that. You&#8217;ve got yourself into a kind of global marketplace where you could build a thing and then sell that thing 1,000 times, 10,000 times over, which I guess, where we&#8217;re going next. But you didn&#8217;t go to plugins first. You actually went into themes, which was a bit of a, well, a bit of a dead end it turns out. But tell us about the theme building enterprise.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:35] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Yeah, so because of all those things you&#8217;ve mentioned, selling time for money and the lifestyle thing, we thought selling WordPress products would be a much better business model because it could scale more. You can build one product and then sell it an unlimited number of times in theory, instead of selling one hour for a certain amount of money.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we thought products are good. And we looked at the products and thought, ah, themes are the way to go. Themes seemed to be a big growth area, well, they were a big growth area. This is 2013.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And when we started work in about 2012 on our first, our only theme, ThemeForest was just growing loads. Plugins existed, but you didn&#8217;t hear about super successful plugin companies particularly. Whereas you could go on ThemeForest and you could see the sales that the big themes were getting, and it was very tempting to be part of that. So we thought, let&#8217;s build a theme. So we did. And it took like a year because of all the demands of client work. So it was just a sideline, building this theme. And then in that year ThemeForest changed, which we didn&#8217;t see coming. ThemeForest changed in the year we were building our theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we&#8217;d analysed the themes that were successful at the time, and they were quite simple. They were nice, designed, often quite bold, clear designs, a bit minimal, and didn&#8217;t have that many features. And then between 2012 and 2013, themes such as uDesign and Avada and that kind of thing became popular. And they were massive multipurpose themes with so many features. And that wasn&#8217;t what we wanted to do. We wanted a product that we could maintain and develop ourselves easily, and it wouldn&#8217;t be this massive headache or anything like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it just wasn&#8217;t what we wanted. And of course, that meant they rejected our theme because it wasn&#8217;t the sort of theme they were looking for. I think they would&#8217;ve accepted it a year before, but they didn&#8217;t when we got actually ready to submit it. So we were like, ah, do we rewrite the theme and make it loads more complicated? Do we sell it independently? And I wasn&#8217;t confident in my ability to market a theme independently, because you&#8217;re competing with the giants. And I didn&#8217;t have experience of that. I wanted to be on a marketplace.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:51] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think back in the day, 2013, like you mentioned, ThemeForest was the place to go for things like that, wasn&#8217;t it? And although I wasn&#8217;t really in the WordPress space, I jumped in after that endeavor. When I got there, ThemeForest was already, basically saturated with themes that could, well, themes that claimed to do more or less everything. You just buy this one theme and it can do everything. Or there was also a dearth of themes which offered a specific kind of functionality, like a real estate, or you might say, realtor theme, or a portfolio theme or, I don&#8217;t know, I&#8217;m a gym owner, I need a theme for my gym.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Kind of felt like it went in that direction, but it seems like you were trying to build something which was more agnostic of industry. It was just a, here&#8217;s the bare bones of a theme, you now go and do the artistic work. But yeah, like you say, ThemeForest was going off in a different direction.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So what happened there? Was it a case of staring at each other and saying, okay, what do we do? Do we try to pivot this theme? Or did you just at some point say, no, abandon it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:51] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> We were fairly depressed and disappointed and just gave up for a few years. So we carried on with the client work, which was going fine. We had a successful business that was keeping us both going. We didn&#8217;t need to do products. So we just continued with the client work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, so steady away. And then what was the moment where you, kind of had the revelation about plugins? Because, again, coming into the WordPress space, 2015, something like that, plugins and themes were already selling like hotcakes. I don&#8217;t really know about the period in which plugins was a bit new, a bit maybe dangerous, a bit, putting your business on the line with plugins. Maybe that was a tough one back then, I don&#8217;t know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:30] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> By the time it got to 2016, I supppose frustrations accumulate over time. So we were again like, oh, the client works just kind of annoying. It&#8217;s not quite flexible enough, and it&#8217;s not scaling enough, it&#8217;s just going up a little bit. So we need to do products. What shall we do again?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And this time we thought, well, plugins could work because unlike these massive multipurpose themes, a plugin can be really tiny or it can be incredibly complex. A plugin can just be a line of code, you know, as an extreme minimum. So we thought, well, that way we can choose products that fit with the scale that we want to offer technically. I hated the idea of a big theme or a massive plugin because you kind of end up being responsible for basically the user&#8217;s whole website.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So imagine if somebody&#8217;s using a theme which takes over their whole site, and it affects every aspect of the visuals. They&#8217;re going to send you a support ticket for everything, even if it&#8217;s not the theme&#8217;s fault. And then you are going to have to prove it&#8217;s not the theme&#8217;s fault. And we just thought that&#8217;s not sustainable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think the same would happen with really large plugins like, I don&#8217;t know, a membership plugin or an e-commerce plugin or something thing like that. So we thought, well, we are just the two of us, plus our freelancers, so let&#8217;s choose a more realistic plugin idea and build it and see what happens.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:54] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So you always had the agency, the client based websites. That was the backup plan. Always something to fall back on if the plugin business didn&#8217;t work out. You took the plunge. What was the first plugin that you came up with?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:07] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> So the first plugin, we found by going on a website, which used to exist, which was the WooCommerce Ideas Forum. They used to have a whole website where people just gave ideas and, basically feature request board. But they have that now if people want to look, but I think it&#8217;s per extension instead of a whole thing for WooCommerce. So you access it differently and it&#8217;s hard to find. But there was this whole website.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we went on this and you can sort it by the number of votes for each suggestion. And we chose an idea which had the highest number of votes that wasn&#8217;t that complex to build, which was WooCommerce password protected categories, which is very specific.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s a great title, I like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:48] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Yeah, nice and snappy. WordPress itself already has password protection for its posts and pages, but not categories, and therefore WooCommerce doesn&#8217;t have it for its categories either. And people were saying that they wanted it for things like building a wholesale site, or selling different products to different clients.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you imagine that you sell products to sports teams and they each have a logo, so the product&#8217;s different for each team, you might create a protected category for that team to log in and order their branded sportswear. Those sorts of use cases. And we thought, well, that&#8217;s quite simple. You just add a category field to the page and a few other features like login and things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we built the plugin. It wasn&#8217;t that difficult, and we launched it. And because it was unique and I was a marketer, I wrote a few blog posts about it, like how to password protect categories in WooCommerce, really niche posts. They went right to the top of Google because you could then, and there was nobody else offering that. And we actually started getting sales after about three days. And we were like, we are getting sales for our plugin and we couldn&#8217;t believe it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:57] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That is quite remarkable because I know the story is harder now than ever. That story is very hard to replicate because, you know, the market is saturated.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But just going back to your actual plugin, realistically, when you built that and you saw that idea, okay, we&#8217;re going to password protect a category, and it will impact WooCommerce, so I don&#8217;t know, we could send it to company A and the category will be A, and they can access it with a password, and we&#8217;ll send it to company B, and the category will be B and they can access it and so on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Honestly, what was your expectation at that point? Because coming into the community, it&#8217;s hard to understand, how big is WordPress? And then the layer underneath that, how big is the plugin which sits inside of WordPress, WooCommerce, how big is that? And then we&#8217;ve got this niche little one, just does one tiny thing. Honestly, what were your expectations?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:44] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Very low. It was an experiment. It wasn&#8217;t a huge amount of work. Basically, Andy stopped doing some agency work for a while, and I relied on the freelance developers a bit more while he coded it. It wasn&#8217;t a big sacrifice for us to build it, and we didn&#8217;t have any kind of a business plan or projections or anything. It was just, let&#8217;s launch a small plugin and see what happens.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we were amazed. And it still exists now. It&#8217;s now called WooCommerce Protected Categories because it has different ways of protecting the category, not just passwords, like user role and that kind of thing. And it actually, a few months ago it met half a million dollars in revenue lifetime. So that tiny idea has done half a million dollars in 8 years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:30] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So how quickly did that money start to roll in? And so it doesn&#8217;t have to be about money, the amount of, I don&#8217;t know, plugin licenses that you sold or whatever it may be. But how quickly did your intuition turn to, oh, there is really something in this? Like you mentioned you got a sale or two within two or three days, which is exciting. But obviously if it then just sort of trickled along one or two a week, it is exciting, but it&#8217;s not that exciting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And what was the point where you and Andy started to look at each other and think, woah, we could potentially forget all the agency work if we now pivot into this? How long did it take you to make those decisions?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:03] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Yeah, because that was just pocket money, the first sales. It was just nice because it&#8217;s an indication that it could work. So that kept growing. And we also launched other plugins as well. Like our second one came from a client project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The client paid us to build a custom plugin, which was a searchable, sortable table of blog posts for their blog. So they had hundreds of blog posts and they wanted a more easy way for people to find them. So we built this table plugin, and we launched it on wordpress.org as a free plugin called Post Table with Search and Sort. So that&#8217;s just as good a name as WooCommerce Password Protected Category.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Got the SEO juice going there, definitely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:43] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Oh yeah, it does what it says. So that was a free plugin, but that led to a lot of sales because people started sending us feature requests once it was on wordpress.org.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So the first ones wanted custom fields, custom taxonomies, and custom post types, rather than just blog posts in their table. So they might want to create like a table of documents or members for a directory of consultants or something like that, like custom post types and data. So we built Post Table Pro, which was the premium version, and that&#8217;s done really well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then people started asking for even more features, which we used to develop different plugins. So we built WooCommerce Product Table, which is a WooCommerce version of that table, which has things like add to cart buttons and variation dropdowns.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so that cluster of plugins that came from this free table plugin is what really kind of catapulted the success. So that within about six months of launching our first plugin we were making, I don&#8217;t know, several thousand dollars a month. And we thought, given that we have some revenue from clients like maintenance and hosting, so our existing clients were paying us for certain things, we can afford to stop taking new projects, and therefore put more resources into building more plugins, and improving our existing ones, and marketing them, of course. So it was about six months that we decided, let&#8217;s stop accepting new client projects.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:13] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So the plugin that you just mentioned there, the sorting of the tables, it sounds like you got that out of a client project. So it was actually a client that came to you. We need this idea and, okay, we&#8217;ll build that. But then the back of that is, can we then take that code and run with it? Which you did. And then you&#8217;ve got the pro version, which adds in a bunch of different features. And now you&#8217;ve got two plugins and a third one came on quite quickly. We&#8217;re six months in, and the dollar signs are starting to make sense.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can see that, okay, there&#8217;s a living in this. We&#8217;ll take our foot off the client websites, but we&#8217;ll keep it going just in case something goes wrong. So I&#8217;m presuming though, at this point you are all guns aimed at, we need more plugins, more and more and more plugins. And so when did it become, okay, let&#8217;s just go in on Woo? How did you end up as Woo as opposed to just WordPress?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:59] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> We never did. Our biggest plugin now is Document Library Pro, which is not Woo, and that came from Post Table Pro as well. The biggest use case of Post Table Pro ended up being documents. So we built a document plugin that had download buttons and previews and stuff that&#8217;s specific to documents. Again, it&#8217;s just a table plugin, and that has been our biggest seller for the last three or four years since we launched it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So because of the success of that and Post Table Pro, we never could actually just be WooCommerce. So we are not like, say Iconic, who specialise in WooCommerce, that&#8217;s all they do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we have this reputation of being WooCommerce. And I wish we were actually. Obviously I like having a successful plugin, but I wish that we had that clear identity because it&#8217;s, like I explained the business at the beginning in the introduction, I&#8217;m like, oh, we have these plugins, they&#8217;re mostly WooCommerce. It is not as clean as it could be.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:56] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Sitting where you are now, and we can get into the numbers of how many plugins and all of that that you&#8217;ve got. Have you made any missteps with, like has any plugin that you&#8217;ve built misfired completely? You thought this would be a great idea, let&#8217;s build it, let&#8217;s market it. But then you build it and the customers do not come. Or has every single one had a fair degree of, they don&#8217;t all have to be super successful, but has everything stood on its own two feet and been worth doing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:20] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> It depends how you define success. But it&#8217;s largely relative. So if you&#8217;re doing one plugin that&#8217;s doing X a month, then if you have one that&#8217;s much smaller, that&#8217;s not necessarily worth it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I would say my biggest mistake, repeatedly, has been thinking too small. So I have a very bad track record of building plugins that are too small and too niche to be worth bothering with. Lots of examples.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>One example was WooCommerce Discontinued Products. So that adds a discontinued stock status to your store. We built it because we were hiring some new senior developers and we were doing a project for these developers. Before we hired them, we were paying them to build a small plugin to check how good they were. And we thought, well, the ones we hired, we may as well release their plugin. So we did.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We did WooCommerce Variation Prices, Discontinued Products. We had multiple plugins that were just trial projects for the developer, but they were good. And their first project after they joined properly was to complete the plugin, and make it sellable. But that&#8217;s a lot of work. You&#8217;ve got to create all the marketing images, the marketing content, the sales page, market it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Each plugin has an overhead as well as maintaining it. And so with hindsight, I shouldn&#8217;t have released all of those small plugins. And we actually sold five of our plugins last year to a WooCommerce company called Kestrel, because we had 24 at the time, and it was just too many. And I did an 80 20 rule analysis of the business and how much revenue was coming from each plugin. And that cluster of five were all doing, they were all doing at least several hundreds a month, but generally less than a thousand a month.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And compared to our other plugins, that was a small proportion. So I thought, let&#8217;s group these plugins and sell them to a company who would appreciate and grow them more, where that fits better with their business plan.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:17] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Are you still on the lookout for new ideas? Or do you want to just hunker down on the ones that you&#8217;ve got? In other words, do you constantly ideate and think, let&#8217;s find a new thing or is it more serendipity? You accidentally stumble across an idea, we should build that, and so we do. Or do you deliberately try, in the same way that you did previously going to the WooCommerce forum, do you try to find new products to build and see how they work?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:41] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> I suppose a bit of both depending on our current priorities. So for example, in 2024 last year, that&#8217;s when we sold the five plugins. And I thought, we&#8217;ve got a handful of really successful plugins, we need to put our resources into making them as good as they can be to maximise their potential sales.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So for example, instead we did launch one plugin last year, our WooCommerce Discount Plugin, but we were already building that when I made this decision. So once I made that decision, I put all our developers on adding features to our existing plugins, including some really big features.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, we have a WooCommerce Product Options plugin, which adds extra options to your product pages. And dozens and dozens and dozens of people were saying to us, we want live image previews. So when you use our plugin to upload an image to the product page, we want that to appear superimposed on a picture of the T-shirt, for example. So if you upload your picture of your child, that will appear on the T-shirt.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that was a big project. So we could have built a completely different plugin, but instead we added live preview. We actually did it as an add-on, so it&#8217;s sort of an extra plugin, but it&#8217;s dependent on the main plugin, and things like that. So we thought, what&#8217;s working and how could we make what&#8217;s working even more successful? But I do have a list of plugin ideas for the future.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So there&#8217;s a laundry list of things that you might build, but the priorities are not to build them all right away? Just see how the market goes. Speaking of that, speaking of the market, you&#8217;re obviously heavily embedded in WordPress, heavily embedded in WooCommerce. What do you make of the landscape at the moment?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You&#8217;re obviously beginning to pitch into Shopify a little bit as well, and I imagine you&#8217;re at pains to say we&#8217;re not taking our foot off the WordPress pedal. How do you feel the landscape is shaping up in 2025? It does seem like things are plateauing a little bit in terms of market share for WordPress, whether or not they&#8217;ll go up or down. How confident are you in the future? Is it still WordPress all the way down?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:42] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> I certainly don&#8217;t think WordPress is going anywhere, and it probably won&#8217;t shrink a lot, if at all. But I also don&#8217;t feel that we are having a rising tide that we can all ride the journey upwards like we used to. For example, in 2020 when everybody was locked down, there was huge growth for nearly all WordPress companies, because the world was going online so rapidly and we had a huge, huge growth very quickly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then since then it has slowed down. The growth has slowed down and now seems fairly stable. Stable is a good word, but it&#8217;s not really growing in a particularly measurable way. And you could argue that that is just a correction because it went up so much, so quickly during the pandemic that maybe it just took a few years to get back to where it would&#8217;ve done if there was no pandemic.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So if you imagine a steep line rather than a big bump followed by a plateau. So you could argue that. But it feels like we have to work harder than we used to to see growth, and make that happen through our own efforts, rather than just relying on a growing market.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:48] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So obviously that would be nice if WordPress could keep going in that same way. What about Woo? Obviously we were just talking about WordPress. I don&#8217;t really involve myself with Woo so much, so I don&#8217;t really know what the statistics are. I know that in terms of e-commerce platforms, it&#8217;s the leader, but I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s sort of going up or going down. You got any insight in that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:07] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> It is very confusing because it depends where you look. So there&#8217;s two main websites that publish data about e-commerce usage, and one of them says WooCommerce is the leader and the other says Shopify is. And they use slightly different data sets. For example, the top X websites in the world, versus the whole internet, versus a sample of a million, which they use to extrapolate upwards.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So there are different ways of looking at the data. So I genuinely don&#8217;t know, there probably is no correct answer, which is the biggest e-commerce platform, but they&#8217;re both doing really well and neither are going anywhere. So that&#8217;s why it felt that it made sense for us to be building products for both.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think WooCommerce is really interesting because it has a good reputation. It has, I think the best leadership team around it that I&#8217;ve seen in the 8 years I&#8217;ve been building plugins on top of it right now. But I wish they would do more marketing. They&#8217;re not promoting their platform in the way that say Shopify is, and that scares me. I would like to see them doing more centralised marketing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They&#8217;re a company, they make money from WooCommerce, even though it&#8217;s free. They have extensions, they have revenue sharing from their Stripe and they have lots of ways of making money, which they&#8217;ve recently talked about publicly. And so I&#8217;d like them to be doing some proper marketing like Shopify does.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:29] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It is interesting, I know you no longer live in the UK. I do, and it doesn&#8217;t take many trips down high streets to realise that the high street is really in decline. You only have to walk down one street in more or less any town to realise that the shutters are going up, the wood is going over the doors, bricks and mortar shops are really struggling.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it&#8217;s this inexorable rise. I can only imagine that, well, people are still buying things, but they&#8217;re buying things increasingly on the internet. My age group, I imagine has been fairly straightforward, because we grew up when the internet was coming around. Children that are growing up now, I think they&#8217;re really just not interested in doing things like going into town in a sort of social way like I did. So I imagine that eCommerce&#8217;s future, just generally e-commerce, platform agnostic, you&#8217;ve got to imagine its got everything going for it, I would&#8217;ve thought.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:24] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Yeah, that makes sense. And we often look at things like market share data, but that&#8217;s just a percentage. So even if WordPress&#8217; market, or let&#8217;s say WooCommerce&#8217;s market share did go down at some point, if the whole of e-commerce was growing, then WooCommerce could still be growing. And it doesn&#8217;t really matter so much if it&#8217;s smaller percentage, if the whole cake is bigger.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I think that&#8217;s the case. And you do see quite regularly published e-commerce data about, particularly after Black Friday, like the most revenue ever went through e-commerce sites this Black Friday. And it does seem to be constantly growing. And I think that is primarily through websites. A lot of people are buying through apps, of course, instead of websites, particularly something like Amazon or even Temu or something these days. But I think e-commerce websites are still huge and I can&#8217;t see that changing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> No, because in most of the towns that I&#8217;ve visited where I can see this, the big, we call them department stores in the UK. An example might be something like Marks &amp; Spencer. They&#8217;ve got a branch in more or less every town. You kind of feel that they&#8217;re immune. They&#8217;ve got their online bit as well, so they&#8217;ve probably inoculated themselves in that way. They&#8217;ve just got so much kudos, and so much loyalty built in that you feel they might be immune for a period of time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But all of the little shops, the little jeweler, the little corner shop selling a thing that they build, whatever it may be, you kind of feel they are going to struggle because the footfall is less. They really do fit into what you sell. I&#8217;m reasonably technical, but I can&#8217;t build, I can&#8217;t code, I can&#8217;t do any of that, so I need a solution.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think the future for WooCommerce and the kind of things that you create and sell, I think the future&#8217;s really bright because I see that market just going up and up. The younger people are going to be wanting to use their devices because they&#8217;re all really fascinated by them, everybody&#8217;s got a mobile phone nowadays. The footfall is sort of falling away, and it all seems like a perfect storm for e-commerce to grow. I could be being overly optimistic there, but it feels like it&#8217;s fair weather for the next decade or so.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:26] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Yeah, I know what you mean. And it&#8217;s a good example to use those small shops because even if they keep their storefront, which probably isn&#8217;t profitable, they should be selling online. And small shops, they&#8217;ve got a few choices, that could be WooCommerce. That might be harder to set up in the first place, they might need to hire someone. But then their costs are super, super low compared to most platforms.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They could go for Shopify, which is slightly reversed in that sense. Or they could use something like Etsy if they&#8217;re a jeweller, to use your example. So there&#8217;s lots of ways for them to sell online, but they do need to be thinking of it for their survival because of the decline of things like the high street, as you say.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:03] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I think so. Looking back, again, just casting your mind back to 2013 when you began all of this. Do you think that you were lucky when you decided to pivot into making plugins? What I&#8217;m really saying is, if you were beginning now in 2025, everything was the same, it was just 12 years later, 2013 to 2025. Do you think you&#8217;d have the same degree of success with the exact same kind of approach to it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Basically, has the market got harder, more saturated, more difficult to sell into, more savvy? Anything around there. Do you feel, basically, you were lucky in terms of timing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:38] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> I think to an extent. I don&#8217;t believe it&#8217;s fully saturated yet, but it is more full than it was when we started. So when we started, there were no WooCommerce protected category plugins, there were no WordPress dynamic table plugins, there were no document library plugins, there were no product table plugins for WooCommerce.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we managed to do that because those were gaps. Now they&#8217;re not. And now we&#8217;ve done successful plugins in those categories people have copied. So we have competition now, which came along after we launched. So those are no longer gaps. But I do firmly believe that there are still gaps that you can fill.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the way to find them is through already being in WordPress in some way, which most typically is through building sites for clients, or doing some kind of client work. Because they will always find a gap and ask you to fill it through a custom plugin or something like that. So if you concentrate hard enough on the client work that you&#8217;re getting, you probably will find gaps.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And if you find something that doesn&#8217;t already exist, then yes, you could get to the top of Google quickly for a very specific keyword. Of course, WordPress and WooCommerce are much bigger now than they were in 2016 when we launched our first plugin. So even if it&#8217;s slightly more diluted with competition, the market is bigger. So there is potential now you&#8217;re a part of a bigger market.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:03] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So last question really, Katie. Do you see WordPress being the thing for you and your husband, the business you are going to pursue for the next decade or so, or do you think you will be scrambling around for more opportunities in the Shopify space? I don&#8217;t know, other CMSs, pivot completely, who knows? What does the future hold? What&#8217;s the next decade looking like from where you sit right now?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:24] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> I must admit, I&#8217;m not very good at long-term planning. I just do what feels right for the short and medium term.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s worked.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:32] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Well, yeah, exactly. Does it matter? You do something and then you focus on what works and learn and keep iterating. I think that&#8217;s why I haven&#8217;t created, I don&#8217;t know, hundreds of million dollar worth business because I&#8217;m not a visionary that has this long-term view that I&#8217;ll do anything to make it happen.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Instead, I try something and keep learning, which has created a successful business, but in a more steady growth kind of way. So I&#8217;d rather be that visionary, but I&#8217;m not. It&#8217;s hard to know personally. I think you wanted to talk about the fact that my husband left the business about 8 months ago now. He&#8217;d lost his passion for it and wanted to reflect on other things he could do for the rest of his career, which he&#8217;s still doing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I&#8217;m now running it on my own and he owns half of it, so that might affect the future. We talked about whether he should sell his share, for example, at the time, and he decided, oh, WordPress is growing so nicely, it&#8217;s so stable, he&#8217;ll leave his money in the business.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, since then there&#8217;s been all this drama, so we are thinking, was that the right call? Should we get some money out?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I love what I do and want to stay doing what I&#8217;m doing for the foreseeable future. But we could do something like take on a partner or investment or something if Andy wants to, say, invest his half elsewhere. So there&#8217;s that, which might affect our future.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:54] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Oh gosh, that&#8217;s interesting. So, you heard here first. If people wanted to get in touch with you, Katie, not necessarily about taking on half the business or anything like that, but they&#8217;re just curious about what we&#8217;ve talked about today, or anything else related to WooCommerce plugins, et cetera, where would you be hanging out online? Is that a social network or an email? What&#8217;s the best thing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:15] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> So for company stuff, it&#8217;s Barn2.com to check out our plugins and so on. And for me, the most active place that I am would be Twitter, which is katiekeithbarn2.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So Katie Keith, I appreciate you chatting to me today. Thank you so much and every success for 2025 and beyond. Thank you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:34] <strong>Katie Keith:</strong> Thanks for having me.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://x.com/katiekeithbarn2\">Katie Keith</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie is a founder and CEO of <a href=\"https://barn2.com/\">Barn2 Plugins</a>. With a background deeply rooted in WordPress, Katie&#8217;s journey presents an interesting narrative of transformation, from the early days of running a WordPress agency, to now managing a flourishing plugin business. Barn2 plugins has a portfolio of 19 premium plugins, many of which extend functionalities in WooCommerce.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today, Katie previews her upcoming lightning talk which she’ll be giving at WordCamp Asia. She talks about the transition from agency work to plugin development, highlighting early challenges and choices that shaped the business’ path.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We get into the initial allure of client projects and their subsequent realisation of the benefits offered by productising their skills for global reach. Katie describes the decisions that led them to WordPress plugins, with products like WooCommerce Protected Categories and Document Library Pro, and explores how customer feedback and market needs drove their product diversification.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As Katie explains, the plugin world wasn’t without its hurdles. There was trial and error involved in launching new products. This underscored the importance of market research. Additionally, she touches on Barn2&#8217;s current pivot into Shopify apps, aiming for diversification to help ensure that the business has stability by being available across multiple platforms.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Katie investigates the current WordPress and WooCommerce landscape, discussing how she perceives the industry will change, potential growth areas, and the necessity of staying agile.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you’re curious about the intricacies of building a plugin business, or are seeking inspiration from someone who has already navigated the WordPress ecosystem, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://barn2.com/\">Barn2 website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.shopify.com/\">Shopify</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://themeforest.net/\">Themeforest</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://iconicwp.com/\">Iconic website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://x.com/katiekeithbarn2\">Katie&#8217;s X profile</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 19 Feb 2025 15:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:38;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:99:\"Do The Woo Community: Why You Shouldn’t Miss WP:25: A Virtual Deep Dive into Enterprise 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That sounds promising, but the reality is that many professionals still struggle to turn brief connections into meaningful career opportunities. Networking can feel overwhelming, especially for those who face social anxiety or find traditional approaches too transactional.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The good news? <strong>Building genuine relationships doesn’t have to feel like a chore.</strong> By focusing on leveraging the contacts you already have and combining practical strategies with powerful digital tools, networking can become both effective and enjoyable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This guide will walk you through actionable tips to help you maximize your current network, rekindle dormant connections, and stand out with tools like Gravatar, a <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/11/08/creating-a-digital-business-card/\">digital business card</a> that keeps your professional presence consistent and memorable.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Turn connections into lasting professional relationships</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Here&#8217;s a counterintuitive truth about networking: <strong>your most valuable professional connections might be people you haven&#8217;t spoken to in years. </strong>While most of us focus on maintaining active relationships or making new ones, <a href=\"https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220520957_Dormant_Ties_The_Value_Of_Reconnecting\">research from Organization Science</a> reveals that reconnecting with dormant contacts often yields greater benefits than relying on current ties. These forgotten connections – rich with untapped potential and fresh perspectives – could be the key to your next career breakthrough.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, what can you do to take advantage of those?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Start by conducting a </strong><a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/16/how-to-network-at-a-conference/\"><strong>network audit</strong></a><strong>.</strong> List your contacts and assess which connections may have gone inactive but still hold relevance. Using tools like Gravatar, you can revitalize your professional presence by ensuring your contact details and digital profiles are updated. This unified presence boosts credibility and simplifies re-engagement.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>When reaching out, avoid generic follow-ups.</strong> Instead, build on shared professional interests or reference past collaborations to create meaningful touchpoints. For example, share an article or idea relevant to their industry. Crafting a strong elevator pitch is essential here – it’s your opportunity to leave a lasting impression when reconnecting.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Finally, don’t let </strong><a href=\"https://hbr.org/2022/05/if-networking-makes-you-anxious-try-this\"><strong>networking anxiety</strong></a><strong> hold you back.</strong> It’s normal to feel nervous, but simple techniques like visualization and scripting your conversations in advance can ease those worries​. With practice and intentionality, reconnecting with dormant ties can transform them into enduring professional relationships.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Making authentic follow-ups that get responses</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Imagine reconnecting with an old colleague. During your initial call, you discuss a mutual interest in emerging industry trends, such as AI-powered customer insights. A week later, you follow up by sharing a report on the topic, along with a thoughtful note: “Our chat inspired me to dive deeper into this – thought you’d find it interesting too.” This kind of personalized follow-up shows genuine interest and keeps the conversation alive.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sharing relevant industry insights or opportunities is a simple but powerful way to create value. It positions you as someone who contributes rather than merely seeks help. For example, sending an article that aligns with their current projects or highlighting a conference they might enjoy can make you memorable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>If starting these conversations feels daunting, practice a few </strong><a href=\"https://www.themuse.com/advice/30-brilliant-networking-conversation-starters\"><strong>go-to openers</strong></a><strong>. </strong>Questions like, “What inspired you to attend this event?” or “What’s been the most exciting project you’ve worked on recently?” are engaging and natural​. You can also keep it light and personal with openers like, “Have you been to this venue before?” or “What’s your favorite part about working in this industry?”</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>When reconnecting via email or LinkedIn, make your opener personal and specific. </strong>A great example could be referencing a shared memory: “I was just thinking about the project we worked on together back in 2018 – still one of the most innovative teams I’ve been a part of!” These thoughtful touches can make the difference between a generic interaction and one that leads to a meaningful, lasting connection.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Using Gravatar to stay memorable after meetings</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1397\" height=\"716\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/gravatar-new-homepage-1.png\" alt=\"The Gravatar homepage\" class=\"wp-image-2867\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a> offers an easy way to leave a lasting impression after professional meetings. By creating a unified digital profile, Gravatar ensures that your contact information and portfolio remain accessible and automatically updated across platforms like <a href=\"https://wordpress.com/\">WordPress</a>, <a href=\"https://github.com/\">GitHub</a>, and <a href=\"https://slack.com/\">Slack</a>.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1421\" height=\"985\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/ronnie-gravatar-profile-3.png\" alt=\"Example of a Gravatar profile\" class=\"wp-image-2868\" />\n\n\n\n<p>But the standout feature for networking? <strong>QR codes.</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Gravatar enables users to generate personalized QR codes linked directly to their profiles. Imagine this: You’re wrapping up a productive meeting, and instead of fumbling for a physical business card, you share your Gravatar QR code. Scanning it instantly provides your connection with access to your contact details, social links, and a dynamic calendar link for easy follow-ups​.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The code itself is hidden behind your Gravatar profile picture and to see it, you just need to click the little icon on the top right corner.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1474\" height=\"974\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/gravatar-qr-code.png\" alt=\"Example of profile QR code\" class=\"wp-image-2869\" />\n\n\n\n<p>However, if you’re a developer, you could even <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/api/profiles/qr-codes/\">customize the QR code</a> by adjusting its size and style, and even include your avatar or logo at its center. The codes can be embedded on name tags, event lanyards, or even digital signatures, making them a versatile tool for any networking scenario that includes <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/08/02/organizational-benefits-of-efficient-contact-sharing/\">contact sharing​</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This not only saves time but also positions you as tech-savvy and organized – qualities that help you stand out. With a Gravatar profile and QR code, staying memorable is as easy as a quick scan.</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gravatar.com/connect/?gravatar_from=blog\"><img width=\"3243\" height=\"729\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/free_profile_cta.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2616\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Stand out at conferences: Strategies and digital tools for real-world networking</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Industry conferences often bring together professionals from all stages of your career – making them perfect opportunities to reconnect with dormant contacts and forge new relationships. Here&#8217;s how to maximize these moments:</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Before the conference</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Review the attendee list for former colleagues and new people you’d like to connect with.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use LinkedIn to identify which of these people (old and new contacts) will be speaking or attending.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Plan your schedule around sessions where you&#8217;re likely to encounter these contacts.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>During the conference</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Use Gravatar&#8217;s QR code on your name tag with a note like &#8220;Worked at [Previous Company] 2018-2020&#8221; to help former colleagues recognize you.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>After reconnecting, use <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/help/linkedin/answer/a554240\">LinkedIn Live</a> to host quick session recaps, tagging relevant colleagues and attendees to maintain engagement.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Log reconnections in CRM tools like <a href=\"https://www.hubspot.com/products/crm\">HubSpot</a> or <a href=\"https://www.zoho.com/\">Zoho</a>, noting shared history and current interests. Then, you can set reminders to follow up with a personalized email a week later.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Post-conference follow-up</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Use <a href=\"https://zapier.com/\">Zapier</a> to automate personalized follow-ups that reference your shared history.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Share conference insights relevant to your reconnected contacts&#8217; current roles.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Schedule virtual coffee chats to continue conversations started at the event.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Set up your professional digital hub in five minutes</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>With Gravatar, setting up a professional digital hub is quick and simple. Here’s how to get started:</p>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"http://gravatar.com\">Register on Gravatar.com</a> and upload a professional photo to ensure a consistent, recognizable online presence.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Include LinkedIn, GitHub, or other platforms where your professional work is showcased.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Highlight your expertise and current role to make a great first impression.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use Gravatar’s QR code feature to share your profile at conferences or in follow-up emails​.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<p>In minutes, you’ll have a centralized, dynamic digital business card that keeps your contact details and portfolio accessible across platforms. Whether you’re connecting online or in person, Gravatar ensures you stay memorable and organized with minimal effort.</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gravatar.com/connect/?gravatar_from=blog\"><img width=\"3243\" height=\"729\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/free_profile_cta.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2616\" /></a>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 17 Feb 2025 16:23:15 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:44;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:47:\"Do The Woo Community: Do the Woo v4.2 Changelog\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=89017\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:51:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/do-the-woo-v4-2-changelog/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:212:\"Version 4.2 introduces new shows including WooCommerce Accessibility Insights and WP Agency Tracks, hosts Marcus Burnette, Mark Westguard, and Matthias Pfefferle, while deleting All Things WordPress and Woo Show.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 15 Feb 2025 09:30:30 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:45;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:45:\"WordPress.org blog: Report: WordPress in 2025\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=18475\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:60:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2025/02/wordpress-in-2025-report/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2965:\"<p>This year is set to be transformative for WordPress, yet many decision-makers risk overlooking the immense opportunities ahead. Our new <strong>“WordPress in 2025”</strong> report highlights why WordPress should be a cornerstone of your long-term strategy. Stay ahead of the curve—read the report now to see how WordPress can drive growth and innovation for your business in the years to come.</p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"647\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/WordPress-in-2025-WPORG-2.jpg?resize=1024%2C647&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-18476\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Some of the key points we explore:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>As proprietary &#8220;next-gen&#8221; CMS hype fizzles out and enterprise budgets shift priorities, open-source CMSs like WordPress are primed to gain ground in the commoditized CMS space. WordPress&#8217; maturity and extensibility provide a high starting point for innovation.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>WordPress&#8217; Block Editor has seen tremendous investment, amassing over 34,000 commits &#8211; more than entire competing CMS projects. New capabilities like Full Site Editing (FSE) give enterprises unprecedented ability to enable no-code site building.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Just as being the first user-friendly publishing tool propelled WordPress&#8217; initial growth, AI presents a similar opportunity. WordPress&#8217; contributor community can build not just AI features, but an exciting multi-agent, LLM-agnostic ecosystem representing an intelligent content operating system.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Pure-play headless vendors are working backwards to add no-code editing, while WordPress has long supported robust headless capabilities alongside its mature editor. For complex sites, hybrid architectures leveraging both are the pragmatic path forward.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/WordPress-in-2025-Report-Noel-Tock.pdf\">Download the full WordPress in 2025 (PDF)</a> report directly to learn more.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Don’t miss WP:25, the virtual event.</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://humanmade.com/wordpress-in-2025-event/?utm_campaign=41192678-WordPress%20in%202025&utm_source=event&utm_medium=Noel%20sales%20outreach&utm_content=event%20landing%20page\">Save your spot at our free event, WP:25</a>, exploring the future of WordPress and featuring key people working with many of the ideas discussed in the report. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>About the report&#8217;s author, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/noel_tock/\">Noel Tock</a></strong> — Having built his first website back in 1995, Noel has long been watching the evolution of the CMS space. As a co-owner at one of the leading enterprise WordPress agencies, Human Made, his belief in the power of open source is as great as ever. Human Made is a WordPress VIP Gold Partner specializing in DXP, headless, AI and more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 15 Feb 2025 03:19:09 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:9:\"Noel Tock\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:46;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:52:\"WordPress.org blog: WordCamp Asia 2025: Manila Magic\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=18482\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:67:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2025/02/wordcamp-asia-2025-manila-magic/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4133:\"<img width=\"1024\" height=\"536\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2025/02/444990627_474578655140578_2659126618470753960_n.jpg?resize=1024%2C536&ssl=1\" alt=\"WordCamp Asia 2025\" class=\"wp-image-18491\" />\n\n\n\n<p>The first major WordCamp of the year is here! <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/\">WordCamp Asia 2025</a> lands in Manila, Philippines, from February 20-22, bringing together open source enthusiasts, developers, and WordPress professionals from across the region—and the world.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>With three packed days of learning, networking, and collaboration, this year’s event promises fresh insights, dynamic discussions, and plenty of opportunities to connect.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Solutions spotlight</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Throughout the conference days, multiple presentations will focus on the solutions provided by our amazing sponsors. This is a great opportunity to learn more about their initiatives and solutions.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-content-justification-center is-layout-flex wp-container-core-buttons-is-layout-1 wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/solutions-spotlight/\">Explore the solutions spotlight</a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Keynotes, panels, and deep dives</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The main conference, which will be held on February 21-22, will feature <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/schedule/#day-2\">a lineup of notable keynote speakers</a>, including digital innovation leaders and open-source advocates. Attendees can expect diverse sessions on business strategy, development of best practices, and technical advancements.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For those looking to sharpen their skills, presentations will dive deep into topics like SEO for WordPress, performance optimization, and AI-powered content creation. Plus, don’t miss the electrifying WordPress Speed Build Battle, where developers race to create stunning sites in record time.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">YouthCamp</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>On February 22, WordCamp Asia 2025 will host <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/youthcamp/\">YouthCamp</a>, a pre-registered event designed to introduce young minds to WordPress and its endless possibilities. This initiative aims to engage the next generation of WordPress users, developers, and contributors through hands-on activities and interactive sessions</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Closing Q&amp;A with Matt Mullenweg</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress Cofounder Matt Mullenweg will wrap up the event with a live Q&amp;A session on February 22. Whether attending in person or tuning in online, you can catch his insights live on the <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/@WordPress\">WordPress YouTube channel</a> at 4:00 p.m. Philippine Time (08:00 UTC).</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">After party</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>As the sun sets on WordCamp Asia 2025, the excitement continues with the After Party (theme: Island Vibe)! Get ready to experience the vibrant spirit of the Philippines with a lively gathering at <a href=\"https://www.picc.gov.ph/\">The Forum at PICC</a>. 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